My 4&10 progression with inside

[Nacho Money]

I just came back from a trip to Vegas - ended-up playing this - good profit maximizer.

I consider every 4 and 10 to be precious and not to be wasted on a come-out roll so:

$15 4 and $15 10 working on come-out, with $9 three way seven for protection. Drop a $5 any crap if you want to protect the 3 way and the passline. On first hit, drop $7 and parlay to $50. On second hit, drop $2 and parlay to $150. On third hit, rack $200 and press to $250. Rack any hits at $500 a pop.

So, to maximize a good - great roll, here is my total play...

4&10 like above...
$15 passline with x3 odds
depending on the point, I either do $48 inside (6/8) $51 inside (5/9), or $66 inside (4/10)
So, your initial bet investment is around $150

Here are my progressions:
5/9
first hit - press to $25
second hit - press to $50
third hit - press to $75
fourth - press to $100

If you are already winning before the 5 hits multiple times, then I press more aggressively
Third hit - press to $90
Fourth Hit - press to $150

6/8
first hit - press to $30
second hit - press to $48
third hit - press to $60
fourth hit - press to $90
fifth hit - press to $120

Passline:
first pass - odds = full
Second pass passline = $25 odds = x3
Third pass passline = $25 odds = full
Fourth pass passline = $50 odds = x3
Fifth pass passline = $50 odds = full

On a pretty good hand, this method will swing $1500 - $1900 up (5 and or 9 hit 4-5 times, 6 and or 8 hit 4-5 times, 2-3 passes, 4 or 10 hit the third parlay).

I've also made $1200 on just the 10 parlay - I rolled 5 tens in 8 rolls and got $1200 racked.

I developed this as I was playing in Vegas to maximize the profitability of a good roll. On my last day, I played 5 sessions and accumulated a profit of $4200 for the day using this.

I usually play this until:
any one roll achieves a larger than $600 swing -then I color-up after the roll
or
I hit my loss limit. In my case a session bankroll is $2000 - my loss limit is $1000.

[memo]

Hey Nacho..Good to hear from you.

Interesting scheme..
Are you only pressing the number hit, or do you press in pairs?
With a press schedule like that, it seems like you are not worried about covering your initial investment, but instead looking for a large return after multiple hits. What do you consider on average, a minimum number hand to get past the break even level and get to profit? Or, do you worry about such things?

When you say, a 600 swing to color up...Is that to keep a low profile?
Are you considering only the current hand? What would happen if the previous hand was short, and you needed to make up some?

I like what you are doing...Shows considerable faith in ones abilities.

Memo

[heavy]

Bam! Great to see you back, nacho. Thanks for posting.

[Iceman95]

Do you play this way with randoms or di's?

[heavy]

Allow me to interject here that Nacho is one of the best shooters I know. I strongly suspect he is only running this play on his own hands, but I'll let him chime in on that when he gets a chance.

[Nacho Money]

Hello my friend, Memo

To answer questions:
I only press the number hit.
What I outlined is the play I do at the beginning - If things are not working out and I get within $300 of the loss limit, then I do same bet until I nearly cover the $150. I only do this for the first hit on a number, the second hit on the number starts the progression (multiple hits are precious - you need to capitalize on them.)
On average, I'm looking at 9-12 hits to break even and get to profit. On an extreme, I hit my profit in 8 rolls with a bunch of 10s.
Because my focus is on profit, I don't worry about covering my initial bets until I get close to the loss limit - at that point, I'm looking to survive long enough to reach a good roll.
$600 swing isn't to keep a low profile, it's there to tell you when to stop playing - do not rely on greed to tell you when to leave a table. Also, in my experience, $600 is the lowest you should stop at - any lower and you won't have enough "gas" to get out of a low cycle. With how the pressed up bets are paying by time you are at the $600 threshold, your profit after the roll is done is in the $700+ range
Yes, this only considers the current hand. If the $600 swing still gets you below break-even, you should still bail-out. The next hand still does have a fighting chance at recovery plus profit. Losing more than $1000 in a single hand is not good - its going to be harder to recover in the next hand.

Iceman: To "jump up and down" on this play to test it, I've played this on my rolls as well as randies - again, just to gauge the amount of volatility.

Heavy: Thanks, man for the kind words!

I've changed my shooting grip and style too on this latest trip. Grip: typical three finger front, shoot from 3-5 inches above deck. Soft and gentle swing. On release, I do a wrist flick up to get back spin to keep the dice together and on axis. Landing zone is very close to the back wall bottom ramp (I want to "trap" the dice in that bottom corner so they "stick"). Arc angle on landing is very steep - in some cases, the dice never bounce to the back wall or if they do, they bounce almost straight up and not really into the alligator bumps. I'll also pull this move to get a spinning deadcat drop with no backwall - the steep angle backspin is good for this - again you are trying to get the reflection angle (the bounce angle) to be as straight-up as possible with as little forward travel as possible. You want to feel the dice "roll" off your finger tips after the wrist flick. I've also done swallow or low angle tosses - if you do that, you must aim at the bottom of the wall - basically "trap" the dice between the deck and the backwall ramp tp get the dice to "stick".(harder to do consistently).

[pappyvanwinkle]

Hey Nacho, good to hear from you.

Interesting play, I agree with you, you shouldn't rely on greed as your indicator it's time to pull out. I think that's what hurts most players, knowing at what point to pull out in either case, when you've made a profit or when your down.

I've seen it more often than not, people double their money then stay and lose it all back or just stay hoping to come back and lost it all.

Pappy

[Nacho Money]

Hi Pappy

Yeah, my goal is just to accumulate big swings throughout the day - sometimes the swing happens early, and I'm in profit. Sometimes it happens later and I either breakeven or win a small profit. Sometimes it happens late and I recover some loss but still not breakeven. Never chase a loss - and especially never fall for the trap of chasing a win.

[Grex]

Hi Nacho,

I've been off the board for quite a while, but was back lurking when I saw your post. Question: during your toss, do you focus on the landing spot or on the dice in flight? Back before the board changed over this was the subject of a thread that generated a lot of discussion. Seems like you and I were the only "dissenters" at the time; I'm curious to learn if you've changed your approach after all the research you've done.

Your toss may have changed dramatically since I saw it last, but I really liked your methodology and your results spoke for themselves.

Regards to All,
GR

[memo]

This thread is beginning to feel like a reunion...
Good to hear from you Grex

Memo

[Nacho Money]

Hey - reunion would be cool

Grex - my focus is on landing spot - the dice bounce on landing tells me about the dice in flight - whether they were square and aligned or not.

[heavy]

Vegas. October. Been thinking about a couple of different twists as October shapes up. You've just given me an idea for another one.

[Grex]

Hi Memo, good to be here! Life's diverted my attention for about a year now. During the downtime I've spent a little time thinking about craps and the impact of normal volatility on an infrequent player (such as myself).

Like most aspiring DI's, I got into this thinking that I'd develop a skill that would translate into a steady advantage over the game. Unfortunately, after many hours of reading and study of the works by MP and Irishsetter, I came to the conclusion that the steady advantage I was expecting is only valid for those who play regularly and often. Only with many hours of play can the advantage be proved out; lesser playing time increases the likelihood that normal volatility will overshadow the benefit of DI skills. Since I don't live anywhere near a casino my "craps opportunities" are limited to 2-3 times a year at most. Bearing this in mind, it is logical that my craps effort would be most subject to the whim of "volatility". I'll have to admit that the realization that volatility could completely swamp my DI efforts was a bit depressing.

I do "check in" on the board every now and then, though, and saw this thread by Nacho Money. This triggered a memory of something Nacho said a while back about limiting the amount of time spent at the table (along with win-loss limits and other things) to maximize profit.

Seems like Nacho has seized on the possibility of using volatility to his advantage. This idea has my full attention. Perhaps Nacho might give us a description of his itinerary on a typical day during one of his trips to LV? I think this would be very interesting reading for many, and particularly enlightening for me at this point.

GR