low buy-in first bets, new table

[Moe Bettor]

This may be an old topic, but from posts I've read..and play I've played, I'd like to hear what you do.
So you're at an unfamiliar table and you have a $300 or less buy-in. What's yr. game? Is it geared
towards retaining money or going full bore? What are your considerations when making yr. first bet?

[Big O]

seems like anytime i have tried to take this game on "full bore" it has bored a hole in my bank roll. "tip toe" echos through my head, dont know where i could have heard that before. Irish's advice sounds solid to me. Headed to S/BC this weekend with the goal of retaining as much of my bank roll as possible. Hopefully my goal wont interfere with my intent to win.

[skasower]

I tend to agree with Irish's approach with a few hundred buy in. However, I would like to also call attention to DarthNader's topic "Vegas Baby! DarthNader Prowls the Valley." In that topic Mr. Darth describes his sessions at Sunset Station, LV where he is really using the same approach of a few hundred dollar buy in except he is predominantly playing the dark side. It is a very interesting read and certainly strongly suggests that many of us need to get far more familiar and comfortable playing the dark side. Disregard Mr. DNr's penchant for proposition bets here to get the real gist of his TR. I love and respect Mr. DNr but I know he has a wild side that cannot stay away from World Bets!

skasower, who loves World Bets too but really knows better not to make a habit here

[Moe Bettor]

Yes. I like world bets too, but only play them either when I am shooting and set for them on the come out or I know another shooter's capabilities who plays the same GWTG. Top 1-1 with 5-5 facing seems to work the best for me.

[DarthNater]

I would like to also call attention to DarthNader's topic "Vegas Baby! DarthNader Prowls the Valley." In that topic Mr. Darth describes his sessions at Sunset Station, LV where he is really using the same approach of a few hundred dollar buy in except he is predominantly playing the dark side. It is a very interesting read and certainly strongly suggests that many of us need to get far more familiar and comfortable playing the dark side. Disregard Mr. DNr's penchant for proposition bets here to get the real gist of his TR. I love and respect Mr. DNr but I know he has a wild side that cannot stay away from World Bets!

skasower, who loves World Bets too but really knows better not to make a habit here

Skasower,
Thanks for the press & readership, I appreciate it. Yeah I have studied this bet quite a bit - knowledge is a good thing.

Let me elaborate a bit. The GWAG come-out isn't for everyone, however after a good deal of bonetracking I see that I have a small edge on the World bet using a crossed sixes variant. It's not gi-normous but it's there - so I love the edge, not the bet. I use it on tables which are playable. Does it work every session, nope. But often enough that it's a worthy arrow in my quiver. Plus there's a handful of DIs that I play with who also are keen on similar GWAG strategies. We compare notes and tactics. Do I bet them? Sure - never randies though. If a DI tosses in a World, I'll follow. I watch their toss and press when it hits. Yeah, it can get wild, like the time 22Inside tossed three Yo's in a row in one of the class sessions, or when you get back-to-back midnights. Otherwise it's $7 down the drain. For me there's more value in the come-out world bets than betting hardways, which I nearly never do as (again per BT) I don't have any propensity (or edge) for tossing hardways as most of those numbers come soft for me using my two favorite point sets. Regardless, I sometimes do "see a hardway, bet a hardway" strategy and piggy back a buck for the crew on it - as it's keeps everyone interested and reduces heat potential.

Just my thoughts, cheers, D.N8r

PS thanks for the love, see around Vegas sometime

[220Inside]

I do like the GWAG play, especially when I'm with Nate. But I will jettison it in fairly short order if it's not paying, as it can quickly become a bankroll drain. When it's working though, it can really be a fun ride.

[Moe Bettor]

As it was at Harrah's in Biloxi a couple years back on their regular table. Can't forget that world bet sequence from 22. I think I still have money from that one. Anyway a shout out to Irish here for the betting sequence I mostly use when I'm shooting except for double odds on the PL right out of the gate. I will use won money after bets paid for to jump my PL odds up. Also Heavy's post regarding how to begin a session with you shooting the dice. Urge everybody to read that. Hey, if you are setting 3V and come out with a 3 or 11..or get an 8 and then a 3 or 11..You might want to dial back a bit.

[220Inside]

Good advice Nick. If you are seeing 3's or 11's from a 3V set you're either double pitching or having both die going off axis. A single occurrence is not enough of an alarm to me to react but if the trend continues then it's a definite warning sign.

[SHOOTITALL]

I like my OH-CM as it has built-in stops and it is always in transition if the shooter gets on a roll. But if the shooter is a dud, small loss at best.

[Tgold]

re: low buy-in first bets, new table

I usually buy-in with 700,1000,1400,2000 and my baseU is a function of the buyin as that is what I am willing to risk. What I have noticed is for my first few year playing craps it didn't really matter how much I bought in(usually 700) with I seldom risked or played with more than 200-300 it seemed. So IMO/conclusion is its best to use a good bet size ratio from the beginning and be willing to use whatever buyin and plan on quitting after a reasonable win goal has been hit--knowing that we will see as much pos variance as negative. We just don't know which will show first.

Re:Thnick orig post: low buy-in first bets, new table:
IMO best to keep bet size the same as we preplanned and as a f(x) of buyin(we never know how much variance or when it will show), so I find it best to start session with this preplanned amount as we just might get pos variance at the very beginning of our session and not even have to play a full session.
*I learned this the hard way as when I first started playing I would recall the sessions where I had early drawdowns and then I read a big article on a forum about going in slow, tip toe,...etc. I thought yes that sounds like a great idea. So of course my very next trip/first session/first time with the dice I roll a solid 43ish hand. My choice to start slow/tip toe strategy not only backfired but probably shorted my trip session winnings many times over. The more I learn about this or any other game is that we should welcome the variance and not try to predict exactly when it will occur. Just use optimum bet size-to-risk money ratios and enjoy the variance. "To each their own I guess as it likely will even out over many trials and come down to individual personalities."



All the best,
Tgold

[DanF]

I like transition play. I play cautious with a low roll to test tables. But I can stand a big roll play.. so on a hot run I will raise my bets from profits.

I will start with 5$,10$ base bets.

And move to 15$,25$,60$ base bets if I'm tracking a good session is going on.

If I manage to get 300$ profit from a steady game. I will raise my bets on shooters I trust.
And will give it 3 bullets to work or go down again.

[grinder2017]

I use Irish's pass with 2x odds place the six and eight. I just need to get more aggressive with pressing. I usually collect and then press one unit on the next hit and start increasing odds. I had a great roll at Cherokee River Valley Murphy NC. had 3 different stick people, rolled the ATS (which I never bet and didn't this time) a couple weeks ago. I made only a few hundred (200 buy in) some at the table made thousands, the dealers made more than me some players had them up on the ATS. After my roll ended the box,pit and dealers gave me an applaud (that was a first for me). I think that I might be playing to save my bankroll instead of going for the kill. I'm up over the last three years but I think it could be better. I'm open to advise to get to the next level. Heading back to the table Sunday evening.
Cheers All!

[House of Orange]

Fighting the math approaching the table is never a good thing. A three hundred buy in is for a three dollar table. Totally agree with Irish. Size your bets accordingly and drive fear out the window. Others, no bet or a five count, chat up the dealers, limit the action.

[DanF]

Fighting the math approaching the table is never a good thing. A three hundred buy in is for a three dollar table. Totally agree with Irish. Size your bets accordingly and drive fear out the window. Others, no bet or a five count, chat up the dealers, limit the action.

300 is a good buy-in for a 5$ table if you play it right.

As it limits your losses by itself.

The thing most people forget when they think of a buy-in is their win goal!

Don't play a 5$ table to win 1k... You will get owned!

Transition to higher betting when you win is important if well done, but you can lose it back quicker too.

Over investing with a too small ROI is the game's biggest challenge at any level.

I personally could play over 1.2k buy-ins, but from experience I can tell you that. Once you lost 500$ in a day, putting more out there has a MUCH larger change of failing then coming back another day with a better plan.