7 Heavy System

[hotshooter]

I have been playing the 7 heavy for some time now. Most recent was a trip to Vegas this past weekend. Only one shooter took me all the way up to the 7th level but seven out on a point of six. Lots of naturals were thrown this past weekend. The only adjustment i made in the 7 heavy system was that on setters or rollers who seemed to be in rhythm. i did one of there things. 1. layed off of them and didn't bet. 2. wait for a positive indicator and placed minor $6 six and eoght action. or 3. took a 1-3 unit loss.

[Golfer]

Is that you Dan?

Golfer

[hotshooter]

Golfer you got me! I am back!!!!!!!

[Golfer]

Wow. Been a long time. Glad to see you alive and kicking. Ever hear anything about Tinhorn Gambler? I remeber that night we went downtown and ended up at paris with him and 1 or 2 others. Damn, where did the time go?

Nice to see ya.

Golfer

[hotshooter]

I have not seen Tinhorn Gambler in some time now.

[Golfer]

Hey Heavy or MP or any others........anyone here anything about THG??????

[Blackcloud]

UNHH!!BC wondered if that was the same over heated-shooter UNHH!!Fore brave, him on the mend;and had a session earlier this week UNHH!!Hot Shooter where have you been

[heavy]

Someone told me THG had posted over on John Patrick's forum recently. He never made it over here. In fact, he'd pretty much stopped visiting the old site. I was under the impression he'd taken up with some of the other Vegas locals who will remain nameless, but perhaps I'm wrong about that. Seems like he dropped out of site about the time one of the Vegas trouble-makers and I had a falling out over on the DI forum a couple of years back.

[Blackcloud]

UNHH!!That THG, him plenty good company at a square stone tub

[Golfer]

Yeah Frank, Walter is one of the good guys with a white hat. Glad to hear he posted somewhere H.


Golfer

[Americraps]

I'll bump this so you all can compare it to the Pittsburg Johnnie

[heavy]

Yet another BUMP of a good thread from the Dark Side . . . take it from the top.

[Tgold]

Hi Tonfau, Hotshooter, Americraps, any others that have played this.

Interesting methods and I too would probably lean toward the 138-Unit method to get paid a little more for enduring a deeper run against me. The few times that Ive chosen to try a don't method its more likely to be a 5-6 stage "short-leash" type marti on the shooters 2nd toss as a DC.
So this 7Heavy strategy seems interesting, however, I would like some clarification on a couple items from the above players or anyone else that has experience with it.

Step 3--Im assuming the 138unit method is the same as the first method for "Step 3" which is:

Tonfau: "3rd step - no bet at this level. Wait for shooter to roll anything but a 7. If a 2 3 11 or 12 rolls go to step 4. If shooter makes a point go to step 4. If he 7 out start over with next shooter."

Q1)
So for example , if we lost the 1st/2nd steps, then on the 3rd step we bet nothing and shooter tosses an initial roll of lets say "2" --we would immediately do a (4th step DP=5units)??
OR wait til this shooter finishes and implement Step4 on the next shooter??
OR wait and if shooter 7s out we start method over on the next shooter with a Step1 wager at one unit and accept our 3-unit loss up to that Step-3 sabbatical??

Q2)I'm assuming the theory behind this Step3 stutter is an attempt to keep the progression from getting extremely high on the latter steps? Yes? No? If NO then what is the authors or your opinion on why we do the Step3-stutter?

Does anyone with experience playing this find the Step3-stutter beneficial as IMO I could maybe see its benefit for keeping progression slightly lower. However, it would also leave a bitter taste for us to lose step1/step2 and not have a wager(not even 1,2, or 3 units) on Step3 when it comes up a "would-be" winner??

Any addendum thoughts?

Thx in advance for all replies.

Tgold

[Americraps]

I'll take a shot at answering your questions, Tgold-
Q)1- If the shooter comes out with a "2", that ends step 3, and now you go to step 4.

Q)2 My guess is that the laying off the bet is a way to keep the progression cheap, but it's only my guess. It seems funny to lay out a step but thats what this system does. I can see having remorse when that seven comes up and you have locked in a loss for that shooter. Its only a 3 unit loss though and easily recoupable.

I didn't play this system for very long (to be honest, I don't remember playing it at all) , but maybe Tonfau will chime in, as he seems to have played it for a long time.

[DarthNater]

Hmmmm, remorse after stuttering and missing out on a third step winner, versus remorse for not stuttering and getting thumped on the 12th point?
I guess I'm reading it differently as I saw it as a DP progression. The stutter is if you don't win the DP on step 2; otherwise if you keep winning DPs, add units. I think thats a fine tactic on a cold table, but two or three knockouts and a stutter (or just a stop and then start with the next shooter) is ok too. I recently played in Charles Town (cold tables galore), 19 no passes in a row, seems this would have worked well for the DP.
D.N8r

PS Nice to see the links for the Choppy Table - Short Leash - reread them all; remember reading it when MP first put it out for consideration, still play it, but am wondering if this might be another twist on a cold table - might have to wargame it this weekend, since there's not much football, D

[hotshooter]

Last time I played this system was about four years ago and lost 3 times in a 24 hour period. The problem is the naturals. Does anyone have a good lay bet progression for after a point is established. Without the natural this system appears good

[heavy]

Without the natural this system appears good.

You've just described the problem with virtually EVERY Don't system on the market. Even if you skip the DP and just play the DC - same problem. 1 roll in 6 is going to be a seven over the long run. 1 in 18 will be an eleven.

The problem with any negative progression is this. The casino has unlimited bankroll and you don't. The casino has table limits that you must comply with.

I wish I could have all of the time the world has spent trying to figure out how to beat negative expectation games tacked onto the end of my life. I'd live forever.

[6dollar6]

I'm a confirmed negative progression guy.
And most of the time I'm on the Don't or DC.

I played some sessions with Tonfau in Tunica a few years ago and really liked the 7 Heavy.
Used it in St Louis a few times and won until.....as you would expect, one hot hand killed me.
Not so bad in and of itself but the next week, another hot hand killed me.
I was slightly net ahead on the deal, but my balloon had burst, the fun was gone.
I've never used it since.

6dollar6

[Americraps]

I gave up on it for the second time after another short trial. It didn't work for me in practice.

[mastercrapsman]

This has nothing to do with 7 Heavy System.

I read this thread while on layover in Inchon, Korea flying back to the good old U S of A. I am posting a reply from Oxnard,California now.

Those wondering about Walter aka THG -
per Tinhorn Gambler- he is no longer active at craps table and seldom posts on forums. I have been communicating with him for the last three weeks.

I guess THG, TN Nighthawk, Hotshooter, Others including myself and have been a member of Heavy's Forum since 2002 or prior, as I found this laminated Heavy's Axis Power Dice Set Reference Guide and on the back is Frequency of Number Rolling in 16 Possible Axial Combinations.

Thanks Heavy. I will put it to good use again in a couple of weeks.




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