Table Charting, Roll Tracking, and Table Trends

[Tgold]

22inside:
"...I'm surprised that Jaime doesn't try to bet the over/under on the time and have a long thread about it over on the Games Other Than Craps board."

That's funny.



All the best,
Tgold

[memo]

22I,

Ditto, ditto..
I could not agree more.
I have given much thought about responding at all on this thread.

I do think that Irish really helps us keep on balance. I usually read his posts more than two times in order to get to the nidus of his thoughts...The spite and venom do make it difficult, however I always come away with solid benefit...I am beginning to understand his math, and I am in solid agreement in his philosophical outlook.
So...to distill it all down, you do not have to like the delivery, nor do you need to take the negative frame work personal...
He says what he thinks no matter whose toes he steps on or who's personal sacred cow he gores..
He very much reminds me...
Yep, I am going to say it....Hang on,
Wait for it..
He reminds me

Well, he reminds me quite frankly of
Our President
Donald J. Trump!

Anyone want to lay the over under on that one?

Memo

[House of Orange]

Love it Memo, where's the like button? Anyone who has been around for most of the last 20 years has seen their fair share of VooDoo on the dice boards. Some much more than others, and thankfully way less here.

[Cap-n_Lou]

Well, he reminds me quite frankly of
Our President
Donald J. Trump!

Anyone want to lay the over under on that one?

Memo

I think this belongs in the Joke of the Day forum.

[220Inside]

Well, he reminds me quite frankly of
Our President
Donald J. Trump!

Anyone want to lay the over under on that one?

Memo

I think this belongs in the Joke of the Day forum.

I think memo just got taken off of Irish's Christmas card list

[heavy]

Tempest in a teacup, folks. Back to business as usual.

[memo]

Heavy, If I may....

This does go to the heart of the matter, and I would like to point out some obvious things..If you want to take it down...I understand. I am absolutely not trying to elicit or engage in any negative series of back and forth posts.

First of all, I have known Irish for over sixteen years, and for sometime before that, through reading his articles and visiting his web site. I have always been an avid student, studying and absorbing all he writes. I really had no intention of being offensive. Irish is right. He is always right. One cannot really in argue the math position he takes.

Frustration comes from arguing and mixing facts with opinion. I use his facts to keep my opinions in line, and I would hate to loose that foundation. Now I see him chopping up Heavy's posts....And yes, those thoughts are a bit more opinion based. However, I devour anything Heavy opines, since he has more table savy than anyone I have ever met. Is that math based? Well, maybe to some degree, but nothing like Irish brings in its purest form, to the table.

Bottom line is that I find value in all of this. We need it all. I do, anyway. My time at the tables is not a scientific math experiment, nor it it a wild betting extravaganza. This forum gives the opportunity to explore all avenues of the game with ample evidence to keep one grounded in the process. (Especially with Irish monitoring)

Now, to the offensiveness of my post..I hesitated to make it in the first place. I apologize for making a statement that can cut so deeply to the core, in these highly charged times..Here is something that I know..
The person I pointed out in my post above could, with a little less rancor, and a bit more finesse, reach more people, project more ideas, be more widely accepted and therefore a more effective teacher. That is to say nothing about keeping people engaged and involved while not being pounded into the pavement. Most people I know here are excited, learning and experimenting...But not stupid.

Memo

[olddogcrapper]

Let's talk a little bit about roll tracking - or "charting" at the tables. Plenty of people do it. I even have a section in my seminars where I discuss it and show you how to do it and what to look for. It can be as complex as you want to make it, with patterns, trends, certain numbers following certain numbers, friendly numbers, enemy numbers, and on and on and on. But what are you REALLY looking for?

First off, let me start by saying that roll tracking or charting gives you a look at past results only. As with looking at stock market trends, this comes with a warning. Past performance is no promise of future results. Okay, that's out of the way. Now I'll fall back on my old favorite. Yeah, it's history. But history has a way of repeating itself. Particularly when you factor in the human element. And if that human element includes dice setters who have a skill that may or may not be favoring the dice one way or another, it's even more important. A good DI may, for example, have an "off" day where he's tossing nothing but short hands. He's still influencing the dice. You just need to capitalize on it by betting it right. The same goes when he's tossing nothing but long hands. It's when his toss is off and he's tossing randomly that you have to watch what you're doing. To that end, let's take the next step.

When charting tables or shooters you're really looking for just two things. An expansion of the number of rolls between sevens OR a contraction of the number of rolls between sevens. That's it. The whole thing. If the sevens are getting farther apart then you probably don't want to be playing the Dark Side, or if you ARE playing the Don'ts you want to be selective about it and maybe straddle the fence with a hybrid play, combining some place action with your Don't Pass or Don't Come bet.

If the rolls between sevens are contracting then you need to be thinking in terms of getting more action in on the Dark Side. Don't Pass with odds plus Don't Come with odds. Or if you're a Lay bettor watch for those energy draining event opportunities then Lay the hell out of the point. Opportunities abound in these situations.

Unfortunately, most of the time the rolls between sevens will neither be expanding nor contracting. There will be what I call a "breakthrough line" in your chart out around seven to eight rolls. No one gets past eight rolls. But a lot of players make one Pass before sevening out in those eight rolls, so it's tough to know which way to play. We'd call this situation a choppy table, and these are the toughest ones to play. That's when you need a "staying alive" type play like One Hit - Can't Miss or something similar. Something that keeps you in the game without a great deal of exposure. A grind strategy that positions you to win if the shooter has a breakout hand while hedging you against a big loss on any given shooter. That's the plan.

Do I actively chart with a pad and pen at the tables? Rarely. I find the whole physical charting process distracting. I can track the rolls with chips in the back rail in front of me if I want to, but honestly, it's not that difficult to keep track of this stuff in your head. Just know your strategy when you walk up to the table. Plan your play and play your plan. You'll know where you are every step of the way.

I don't really track, but I watch the trend. Usually on a $5 table so I play a 6 and 8 and it usually at least pays for itself. Sometimes don't have to bet on others to roll depending on the box guy. There's one that's kinda strict about it but the rest don't care. Funny thing is you can bet just the ats. I'll play $2 $1 $2 and save seven dollars from not playing 6 and 8. I hit it two days in a row for $60. Then all I had to do was roll for $40 for my $100 per day.