The All, Small or Tall Bet

[DarthNater]

Hard6,
Yep the traditional hardway set won’t work, now I understand what you are setting.

I have variations with the ace on the right die top and the ace on the left die facing. That combination is my highest frequency for aces, and twelves with sixes in places of the ones

Keep charging, DN8R

[220Inside]

DN8R

I use the "Hardway" (Straight Sixes) or Aces on comeout rolls only with good success in rolling twos or twelves.

If you use the regular Hardway set you throw sevens with double pitches or both dice off axis.
I feel these aren't very good tosses.

The "regular" hardway set, or any of its variants, has the 1-6 on the axial faces. An S6 set, and its variants, have 2-5 on the axial faces and is not a hardway set.

[heavy]

Ah, the tricky nomenclature of dice sets. Sometimes it's best just to say "straight sixes," "crossed sixes," "parallel sixes," V-2," "V-3," "All-Sevens/Hardway."

[DarthNater]

Spent part of the weekend stalking the ATS. Managed to bag a Small on Saturday in my first time shooting from SR1 in many weeks using my good ol’ V3 mutant. It was really pumping out the horns, alas only needed a 12 for the All. Then switched tables and The Man nailed a Small from straight out - well done, pal.

Today had 8 of the ten using my primary V2 mutant, just needing a 2 and a ten. I had my Coaster Card with me and switched sets with no concern, four tries with my aces specific set that produced three box numbers and a Yo. Then switched to the ten specific set, which produced two more box numbers, another Yo, then the devil. Sigh.... Naturally the next time I get the dice, using my primary V2, I roll back-to-back aces and shortly thereafter a couple of tens.

My hand had got me back to nearly even after my first eight DPs got stuffed by four randies tossing pairs of come out winners. Regardless, after practicing sniper set switches at home, I was able to execute in the casino without any shiite between my ears

DN8R

[coaster]

Nice going Nate, when you switch sets with "no fear" it takes away all the pressure that can really mess with us. Just relax put your regular shot on it and keep the "what ifs" out of mind.
Usually, when I change to a specific sniper set I keep a close watch on the numbers it produces. If I'm getting the numbers other than the sniper that it's supposed to I'll stick with it. If not sometimes I'll go to a second best sniper set for the missing number.
Coaster

[Big O]

Naturally the next time I get the dice, using my primary V2, I roll back-to-back aces and shortly thereafter a couple of ten

s.

I track where i am at as far as the ATS on every practice hand i toss with a multicolored abacus i made. It is amazing how often this phenomenon seems to occur. i realize conformation bias can be at play here but sometimes i think the dice are out to get us HaHa and remember just because we are paranoid doesnt mean they are not out to get us.

was able to execute in the casino without any shiite between my ears

This is one of the main reasons i track the ATS when i practice. Seeing what you need to hit it and making set changes and seeing the results helps you be able to make those changes during live play fluidly "without disturbance to the force"

[Parson]

Honestly if Im hitting the boxes and they are loaded up, Im hesitant to change sets too much .... sometimes early on a come out i might shoot for ace deuce or midnight .

[220Inside]

Honestly if Im hitting the boxes and they are loaded up, Im hesitant to change sets too much .... sometimes early on a come out i might shoot for ace deuce or midnight .

It's mostly a confidence thing. I haven't progressed that far yet where I change sets to chase, other than a GWAG play on the come out to hit horn numbers. But what you want to identify are the set equivalents that give you the same combinations of 7s on the faces as your primary set. Those set equivalents will give you the same SRR as your primary set but different number distributions.

For example, my primary set is a 3V, 3-6 3-2. The set equivalents for 2V and X6 are 2-1 2-3 and 6-2 6-3, respectively. All three of those sets have their 7's on the following face combinations:

Top-Bottom
Bottom-Top
Back-Right
Front-Left
Left-Back
Right-Front

Bone Tracker can easily tell you how the number distributions change for these different sets, right on the Transpose tab. Knowing this information can be a powerful tool once you grasp the concept and have the confidence in your game to switch sets without losing mental focus.

[DarthNater]

I track where i am at as far as the ATS on every practice hand i toss with a multicolored abacus i made. It is amazing how often this phenomenon seems to occur. i realize conformation bias can be at play here but sometimes i think the dice are out to get us HaHa and remember just because we are paranoid doesnt mean they are not out to get us.

I’ve been using my table lammers to track ATS during practice to acclimate for the constant “reminder” that it’s game on. I just line up all the lammers, and then push them one diameter every time I toss, helps me see the hot number also as I record on paper and enter into BT later. Here’s some pics to more clearly illustrate:

1F179B91-D010-4CBD-83BA-26901CE5D426.jpeg (107.1 KiB) Viewed 79799 times

156C88E7-FB25-45EE-BCA8-BD12C1288495.jpeg (99.31 KiB) Viewed 79799 times

DN8R

[DarthNater]

Honestly if Im hitting the boxes and they are loaded up, Im hesitant to change sets too much .... sometimes early on a come out i might shoot for ace deuce or midnight .

It's mostly a confidence thing. I haven't progressed that far yet where I change sets to chase, other than a GWAG play on the come out to hit horn numbers. But what you want to identify are the set equivalents that give you the same combinations of 7s on the faces as your primary set. Those set equivalents will give you the same SRR as your primary set but different number distributions.

For example, my primary set is a 3V, 3-6 3-2. The set equivalents for 2V and X6 are 2-1 2-3 and 6-2 6-3, respectively. All three of those sets have their 7's on the following face combinations:

Top-Bottom
Bottom-Top
Back-Right
Front-Left
Left-Back
Right-Front

Bone Tracker can easily tell you how the number distributions change for these different sets, right on the Transpose tab. Knowing this information can be a powerful tool once you grasp the concept and have the confidence in your game to switch sets without losing mental focus.

22I,
Actually if you find 3362 in the Coaster Chart, you'll see there are actually 8 V-2 sets, 8 V-3 sets, and 8 X-6 sets in the 1124 Reference Group all with the same face combinations. Yeah, it's a lot to pick thru, but take a peek when you get the chance. Knowing they are all matched to your original set really makes the switching seamless. Plus I think you'll see one or two sets worthy of further examination that you might not have initially considered.

For instance, I found my primary set of 4226 (Ref Group #7: 1224) actually has a couple of sets that are ideal for me for high distributions of fives & nines (3556) and a ten rich set in 4551; these based on my last book of 4226 rolls. So I'm starting another straight out book of rolls to validate 3556, knowing I can always transpose it into 4226.

Try giving the Coaster Chart a look as its much faster than cutting and pasting transposes in Excel, cheers, DN8R

[220Inside]

If I could ever understand the row and column markers, I might give it a little more of a look. For some reason, I can't wrap my little brain pan around how it really all works, how the data gets in there, etc. Old dog, new tricks and all that, I guess. I definitely qualify for the former

[Big O]

I’ve been using my table lammers to track ATS during practice to acclimate for the constant “reminder” that it’s game on.

That’s a good idea. I think it’s important to have the “reminder” during your practice sessions.

helps me see the hot number

I like that aspect as well.

426A324E-87A8-403B-ABCC-1A61D414BDC2.jpeg (145.8 KiB) Viewed 79783 times

This is my abacus. This is a practice hand from today. Left side top 2brown, 3 blue, 4pink, 5green, 6 black right side top(black) 12-8. It’s fast and easy. So this was a practice hand from today. A 41 roll no 12.

If you are going to bet it when you play I think you need to track and play it when you practice.

[DarthNater]

Big O,
Thanks for the pic of the abacus, nice hand, DN8R

[heavy]

This is my abacus.

I may want to borrow that if I ever teach a craps class in Macau.

Actually, I bought an abacus back when I was in the military and taught myself how to do math on it because I was assigned to a computer outfit with an abacus in our unit's patch. Of course, that was 50 years ago. Might take me awhile to get back in the swing of it, but I suspect it would be about like riding a bike.

[DarthNater]

If I could ever understand the row and column markers, I might give it a little more of a look. For some reason, I can't wrap my little brain pan around how it really all works, how the data gets in there, etc. Old dog, new tricks and all that, I guess. I definitely qualify for the former

22I,
I understand, it takes a walkthrough to really see it. Start at it from the inside out as the row and column markers are just for labels so we can converse about each column. The four digit reference number is for baselining each Group. Here’s the steps:

1. Find your set, 3362, in the chart --- it’s in Group #3, reference 1124.
2. All sets in this Group 1124 have the same SRR, so look at some of those sets in Bonetracker to see which box numbers they pump out the most. Then work back and forth with the TossStats Tab in BT to quantify your Top faces in the POI table
3. Each column is colored coded for the V3, V2, and X6 sets, so if you want 12s look at the sets with sixes then Transpose them in BT to see which might be 12 rich.
4. Practice with that new set and see how it goes.

The key is finding which column your set is in, and then looking at all the other sets that match faces, then do the analysis to find a choice sniper set, DN8R

[Big O]

If I could ever understand the row and column markers, I might give it a little more of a look. For some reason, I can't wrap my little brain pan around how it really all works, how the data gets in there, etc. Old dog, new tricks and all that, I guess. I definitely qualify for the former

If 22 is an old dog i hate to think what that makes me! I faintly remember a post with some charts that i had trouble deciphering as well. Now that DN8 has laid out the steps to follow could someone point this horse in the direction of the water, doesnt mean ill be smart enough to drink but i would like to look.

I may want to borrow that if I ever teach a craps class in Macau

I would say i would bring it with me but since i doubt i ever make it to the "Vegas of Asia" let me know when you are going and i will build you one.

[220Inside]

I may want to borrow that if I ever teach a craps class in Macau

I would say i would bring it with me but since i doubt i ever make it to the "Vegas of Asia" let me know when you are going and i will build you one.

Funny, I always thought of Vegas as the "Macau of the US". Macau is several orders of magnitude bigger than Vegas in terms of revenue.

[DarthNater]

If 22 is an old dog i hate to think what that makes me! I faintly remember a post with some charts that i had trouble deciphering as well. Now that DN8R has laid out the steps to follow could someone point this horse in the direction of the water, doesn't mean ill be smart enough to drink but i would like to look.

I posted a blurry screenshot in the Face Matching thread so we can continue the set discussion over there, meanwhile back to the ATS.....DN8R

[DarthNater]

Honestly if I'm hitting the boxes and they are loaded up, I'm hesitant to change sets too much .... sometimes early on a come out I might shoot for ace deuce or midnight .

Parson,
I felt the same way; however as you'll see a few pages earlier on this thread, there is a point of diminishing expectations for hitting the ATS as your on axis proficiency increases. Put another way - in my latest book of rolls, I averaged snake-eyes about once every 140 rolls with my point set; while its about 14 to 1 with a transposed S6 set - there's 4 sevens on axis on that set though, so that's higher risk to me as its 4 to 1 that I get a seven before aces [this also works analogously for 12s]. So my choices are:

1. Not Change sets - keep tossing with my primary set
2. Change to a Set that is Aces rich but has more sevens (like the S6 mentioned above)
3. Use another set with the same SRR (i.e. a different set in the same column in the Coaster Chart) that results in more aces.

So, if I'm at Bellagio or Aria with $5/$5/$5 on the ATS - that means the Aces are worth $900 if I hit them. So if I have my box numbers pressed to a total above $900 - that's a different scenario; but if I'm on, like toss 18, and only need the Aces for a $900 hit, then yeah, I got a set to switch to in my Primary Group that has the same SRR and higher frequency of aces. That still doesn't mean I'll hit it, but I'm increasing my chances with no added risk to my box numbers. I should add, this is all happening on a table where I've validated set performance, and after I've practiced at home to switch sets.

Parson, I know from us working together that you're still in set optimization mode with your books of rolls, so while you don't have to jump to this level of sniping yet (build more books first); its something for you to ponder as you travel the DI road, DN8R

[Moe Bettor]

If yr. aces are worth $900, you could simply regress yr. box numbers to the minimum, thereby locking up a lot of money and throw for the aces. You get $900 + a ton of money and put little at risk. It would be a fun position to be in, I'll say that about it.