Locking up an ATS?

[Parson]

So in my Tunica Report, I neglected what happened on Sunday Morning with an ATS bet.

My friend Stan showed up in the Turn opposite my position in the hook left of stick basically to use his free play it looked like and place a few bets. I placed an ATS of 5/5/5 since he had hit the tall the previous night.

As the roll goes along, he needs a 10, 3, and 4. As soon as the 10 was the last of the Tall, I pulled my bet from the box and said Lay it for $90, the dealer looked at me and said you should do more.... I agreed quickly and made it $120 Lay ...

Then after a few rolls he knocked off the 3 with the 4 left .... I was shoot I gotta lay it, trying to do math in head quickly as the there were no other players and the stick was moving the dice quickly ... but didn't get the bet made and he rolled the 4. So paid on the small at 30:1 with the Tall and All at 150:1 left for a 10.... I sat there stupid and did not increase that $120 Lay on the 10... after a few roll the 7 showed.

So to you guys here, what was a good lay if only the 10 was needed ... ???? if he hit, my win would be 900 minus my Lay bet ...

Would like some input on a good strategy for that type of situation.

[220Inside]

That 120 lay on the 10 when it's just for the tall end of the ATS is too big, IMO, as you're sacrificing almost all of your profits if the 10 does hit. You'll net only like $30. I wouldn't lay for more than $100 in that case. With a $100 lay you'll net roughly the same amount, $50, no matter whether you get paid on the tall or on the lay bet.

Where is makes sense to do a larger lay is when it's the last number for the All. I haven't done much laying against the ATS yet, but with 5/5/5, maybe a $500 lay would be appropriate.

[Big O]

It maybe the smart play but i dont lay against myself on the ATS. I am so focused on making it i think it would be a distraction, almost like setting myself to fail. Maybe if i had hit one side i would consider a minimal lay on the other half to pay for playing the bet a few more times. Some one smarter than me would have to figure it out but if you play the bet all the time you are working against a 7% HE on the all. If it is a table that has the short pay out the HE jumps to over 20. If you start hedging 100s of dollars against your payout wouldnt that make the HE be really high? Or if you are only going to win 30 for a side put the 15$ ATS money on your dominant box number. I guess its better to win a little than win nothing. I would do it on a random shooter but im getting to where i rarely play it on anyone but myself and a few select DIs. i would only do it on another DI if i thought i could do it without distracting them.

[Parson]

Where is makes sense to do a larger lay is when it's the last number for the All. I haven't done much laying against the ATS yet, but with 5/5/5, maybe a $500 lay would be appropriate.

Since i wasnt the shooter, and since im new to Lay bets in general, but the one thing i can remember is increments of 30 works on all numbers, i went with 90 lay on the 10 initially, then bumped to 120 .... 500 lay to lock up 250 with no risk makes sense, he hits the 10 i still make 400.

I still would likely do it if i was shooting, im not skilled enough to hit a ten on demand yet.

[DarthNater]

This is the classic ATS what-if question.

For me, I only bet on myself or DIs that I know. I don’t lay that tenth number - for me or them. Yeah it makes since to do it and maybe I’ll come around, but not quite yet.

If it’s an even box number then I will start tossing dollars on the hardway as a way to focus myself or shooter.

As for your example of laying the ten - if the ATS hits that’s +$900, so if I was going to lay the ten for $500 to win $250 less the vig, then I’d also do a John Patrick and also bet the hard 10 as a secondary hedge for, say, $40.; or start hopping tens, perhaps.

I’d wargame the hedges and tactics for each of the remaining numbers, that way you’ll know the plan for next time.

BTW having seen your toss and with your set and skill, I’d bet on you and bet the hard ten, and some hops, DN8R

[Big O]

If it’s an even box number then I will start tossing dollars on the hardway as a way to focus myself or shooter.

I like your style, Ive seen Heavy do the same thing. It never hurts to put positive thoughts between the ears.

. 500 lay to lock up 250 with no risk makes sense,

I played with a guy in Reno that i think was playing the ATS 25 across to set up lay opportunities. As often as i get one away on a side i might should increase my small/ tall bets to set up this sure win scenario. The problem i see is too many times the one away is one of the 4 numbers you cant lay. The dark side and lay betting are new for me as well. I am trying really hard to implement this side of the game but its not an easy adjustment.

[DarthNater]

. 500 lay to lock up 250 with no risk makes sense,

I played with a guy in Reno that i think was playing the ATS 25 across to set up lay opportunities. As often as i get one away on a side i might should increase my small/ tall bets to set up this sure win scenario. The problem i see is too many times the one away is one of the 4 numbers you cant lay. The dark side and lay betting are new for me as well. I am trying really hard to implement this side of the game but its not an easy adjustment.

It’s hard to pass on the lay strategy, I guess I will get there, but may have to be selective. My problem is seeing what it can trigger at a table. I saw [ name omitted by Nate, it wasn’t Heavy] who laid a nine for $31 against a student - she was just banging numbers and the nine was a signature number she needed for the All. We all saw the lay, including the shooter; to regain the karma, I started hopping nines. She stepped up strong and hit 2 eights and a six, then sevened out. The table went to sh@&# after that. We chatted later, she was pissed. That was formative for me, so I haven’t laid the remaining number, though I’ve had my chances, many times. Since I haven’t bet the ATS on strangers that doesn’t leave a lot of chances to lay the number. I guess it’s the shiite between my ears - and I should work on that as bucks is bucks, DN8R