The All, Small or Tall Bet

[DarthNater]

If yr. aces are worth $900, you could simply regress yr. box numbers to the minimum, thereby locking up a lot of money and throw for the aces. You get $900 + a ton of money and put little at risk. It would be a fun position to be in, I'll say that about it.

Yep, that’s always an option. Funny thing is with the spread of box numbers I typically get, at most I have a couple pressed up by the time I’m at the 4x4 point. I’m not flinching until it’s 4x4 time. So, I’m opting to stay up and go sniper. I have 3-4 aces sniper sets, one is 6/8 rich, another is 5/9 rich, another is Horn rich; so there’s choices for staying on and keep getting hits

DN8R

[Parson]

Excellent post N8

[DarthNater]

The ATS wanderings continue......
Yesterday, I got a position at SR1 at PS for the first time in several COVID-restricted weeks. I opted for the V-3 mutant, which went on a nine binge. A good thing about this mutant is it also bangs a lot of trash and in short order, I was down to needing a 4 & 11 for the ALL. After two nines, I hit the Yo for the Tall

I kept going with the V-3 mutant as I have been so long shooting V-2 mutant from straight out, I didn't know the set switch for the V-3 for 4s, sigh. Ironically I had my V-2 SO mutant set switch sheet with me; but have not made one for the V-3 - fixing that now. In fact in looking at the set the transposition in BT - it was 4-4 to 2-2 and I had tossed two hard eights during the hand. So, I guess, I hit the virtual All yesterday which pays buttkiss.......

Regardless, it was a nice hand, DN8R

[Big O]

Laying in bed night before last i was thinking about this thread and the ATS and i had an epiphany. Only to wake up and not remember my thought. I have been racking my brain for two days, Nothing! I have come to learn there is not much in the craps world that hasnt been thought of or tried before so you can imagine my frustration at losing this thought. So if anyone comes up with a new great idea i am claiming i thought of it first. By the time i remember it it will probably be like a "well DUH" moment and i will not even want to put it on here.

[wild child]

The completed full A T S is a more-so greater % NON EVENT
than
actually successfully completing either only the SMALL or THE TALL.

Thus the non completed side of the equation either SMALL or TALL
along with the LARGER CARROT aka the "ALL"
are lost..................

Would the essentially BAD BET become a somewhat LESS-SO
were only the SMALL & the TALL GAMBLED
and
the ALL not gambled?

just me saying
w c

[DarthNater]

Laying in bed night before last i was thinking about this thread and the ATS and i had an epiphany. Only to wake up and not remember my thought. I have been racking my brain for two days, Nothing! I have come to learn there is not much in the craps world that hasnt been thought of or tried before so you can imagine my frustration at losing this thought. So if anyone comes up with a new great idea i am claiming i thought of it first. By the time i remember it it will probably be like a "well DUH" moment and i will not even want to put it on here.

LOL, that sure covers a lot of bases. I went back to the same table today, "predictably" my first two tosses were hard fours, maybe that was your epiphany? I made the fours pay the Small this time, by bagging in it less than ten tosses. Needed a 11 & 12 for the All, alas, not this hand. Next time around, hit the Small again with the hard six. Still had not tossed a number > 6, so pressed the Tall and eventually again only needed the 11 & 12 for the ALL. Funny, usually I'm looking for 2s & 3s as the V-3 mutant pumps out the 11s and 12s more than those others from SR1.

Not bad 3 hits on the same table in two sessions, just need to keep stretching the hands, DN8R

[DarthNater]

The completed full A T S is a more-so greater % NON EVENT
than
actually successfully completing either only the SMALL or THE TALL.

Thus the non completed side of the equation either SMALL or TALL
along with the LARGER CARROT aka the "ALL"
are lost..................

Would the essentially BAD BET become a somewhat LESS-SO
were only the SMALL & the TALL GAMBLED
and
the ALL not gambled?

just me saying
w c

I guess we can debate the worthiness of the ATS if you want; however I'm sticking to my opinion that for a DI this is a worthy pursuit.

The math on the bet for a randy is a different issue; I won't debate that.

If you know your DI data and have a SRR > 7 and/or RBS (Rolls Between Sevens) Average > 7+ why would you NOT bet it? Let's break it down a bit - betting the Small and Tall costs $2 - and pays $31 (your original bet + $30); the All costs $1 to win $151. So that's about every fifteen tries to win $31. And, 150 tries on the ALL to win $151. So, you only need to hit them both once in ten, or thereabouts.

So, I'm going for it. And frankly, say its once every 200 tries to bag the All, then ok, after 150 tries, I'll press it to $2 per try. Yep, someone earlier on this thread (or another?) suggested a progressive betting strategy on the ATS & I think that sounds like a good play. More so, I'm keeping track of my ATS outlays - overall (since reopening) I'm ahead on the Small/Tall, while pending the All - with far less than 80 tries to date, though some are at $5 (the Bellagio minimum) which will get me to $150 faster, but also richer if I hit their ALL at $5 x 150.

So yeah, I see it as a profit opportunity for me, DN8R

[SHOOTITALL]

WC: Basically, you are saying the Tall makes a bad bet worse?

[Parson]

When i started playing craps again just over a year ago, i didnt even know what that bet was .... all i knew is that i was making myself some money, and others were jumping and shouting and getting paid big money .... after i started hitting it, at least a couple of times .... i investigated what that mysterious bet was ... i decided i should alway bet it on myself, i usually do unless i forget for some reason. I will never forget hitting the All twice in one day on two different tables.

I agree with N8, i generally hit a side or two each weekend outing ... so its an advantage play for me.

[wild child]

Seemingly just me saying my opinion ALL THE CARNIVAL GAMBLES
are just a greased slide to stuff THE HOUSE BOTTOM LINE aka coffers.

( Perhaps that only applies to OTHER PEOPLE DICE TOSSERS -
Please disregard MY OPINIONATED COMMENTARY if it doesn't apply to your proficiency)

Any finding MY COMMENTARY OBJECTIONABLE
are invited to
UNREAD said commentary.

just me saying
w c

[acpa]

Refresh my memory. Does a come out seven kill the AST bet? or does it vary by casino?

Noah

[DarthNater]

Everywhere in town here I’ve seen the ATS reset by a comeout 7. I hear this question a lot so am wondering where/what casino doesn’t reset. If there is one, I’ll be there soon, DN8R

[House of Orange]

Confusion by the different come out seven rule for the fire bet.

[220Inside]

I also have never run into a place where the ATS does not reset on a come out 7.

[Big O]

If there is one, I’ll be there soon, DN8R

Let me know, im right there with ya!

[DarthNater]

I will also add that in some places in town, if you hit the Small or Tall, they mark it “ON”, pay it, then let you Reset it while the other dude still progresses, DN8R

[coaster]

Nate, I thought I had played someplace that allowed a reset before the All was made. Where is that? The reason for my question is that I often ask dealers after making one side if I can reset it...the looks and answers I always get are like wtf are you crazy? I was beginning to think maybe I was.

HoO, i agree about the FB. As far as I know the come out roll has no effect on the FB. Unfortunately, I don't see it very much any more. I have only ever made a 6 point FB once and that was during practice never in the wild. But the 4 unique points made is quite possible.

There are a couple different versions of the repeater bet I have seen. One you have to repeat different numbers tossed different numbers of times the other you need to repeat points set and made. For some reason I thought there was someplace that allowed the player to reset on the numbers tossed version after one was made. Example, you toss a 12 then repeat the 12 sometime during the hand get paid for it and reset the the 12 again. Was it Paris they used to do it like that? As far as I know any seven wipes away the numbers you have already made in all the forms of repeater bets like in the ATS.

Seems like I've been away from the casinos so long I've forgotten all these bonus bets already.
I'm looking forward to an end to this craziness when I'll feel comfortable getting back again.

Coaster

[220Inside]

Nate, I thought I had played someplace that allowed a reset before the All was made. Where is that? The reason for my question is that I often ask dealers after making one side if I can reset it...the looks and answers I always get are like wtf are you crazy? I was beginning to think maybe I was.

HoO, i agree about the FB. As far as I know the come out roll has no effect on the FB. Unfortunately, I don't see it very much any more. I have only ever made a 6 point FB once and that was during practice never in the wild. But the 4 unique points made is quite possible.

There are a couple different versions of the repeater bet I have seen. One you have to repeat different numbers tossed different numbers of times the other you need to repeat points set and made. For some reason I thought there was someplace that allowed the player to reset on the numbers tossed version after one was made. Example, you toss a 12 then repeat the 12 sometime during the hand get paid for it and reset the the 12 again. Was it Paris they used to do it like that? As far as I know any seven wipes away the numbers you have already made in all the forms of repeater bets like in the ATS.

Seems like I've been away from the casinos so long I've forgotten all these bonus bets already.
I'm looking forward to an end to this craziness when I'll feel comfortable getting back again.

Coaster

That's right Coaster, FB does not reset on come out 7's. It's also not easy to find anymore.

House treatment of repeater bet resets varies. It all depends on whether the house pays the winning bets at the end of the hand or immediately as any repeater numbers hit. Gold Coast, for example pays out at the end of the hand and thus does not allow reloads of individual numbers as they hit. Paris, as you mention, pays immediately when a repeater number hits and allows rebets.

For ATS, I've played at places that do it both ways, some allowing rebets of the Small or Tall when they hit and others that do not do this.

For ATS and Repeaters, it would be good to start compiling data on how different places handle them w.r.t. these rebuys. Nate, do you have a list of the places in Vegas that allow rebets on ATS legs?

[Z-Axis]

If you know your DI data and have a SRR > 7 and/or RBS (Rolls Between Sevens) Average > 7+ why would you NOT bet it? Let's break it down a bit - betting the Small and Tall costs $2 - and pays $31 (your original bet + $30); the All costs $1 to win $151. So that's about every fifteen tries to win $31. And, 150 tries on the ALL to win $151. So, you only need to hit them both once in ten, or thereabouts.

So, I'm going for it. And frankly, say its once every 200 tries to bag the All, then ok, after 150 tries, I'll press it to $2 per try. Yep, someone earlier on this thread (or another?) suggested a progressive betting strategy on the ATS & I think that sounds like a good play. More so, I'm keeping track of my ATS outlays - overall (since reopening) I'm ahead on the Small/Tall, while pending the All - with far less than 80 tries to date, though some are at $5 (the Bellagio minimum) which will get me to $150 faster, but also richer if I hit their ALL at $5 x 150.

So yeah, I see it as a profit opportunity for me, DN8R

Hi DN8R,
Do you forego the GWAG when going for the ATS?

I would think one would use a reliable box number dice set and treat the GWAG as the opportunity cost of playing the ATS.

Z-Axis

[Big O]

Do you forego the GWAG when going for the ATS?

I am more likely to be playing a GWAG game if i am playing an ATS table because i am tossing a horn rich set on the comeout at least until i pick off the horn numbers of the ATS.