Six and Eight, Inside, Outside, or Across?

[heavy]

Today's question. Which initial Place Bet strategy do you think is best overall and why? For Example, my thoughts:

Place Six and Eight for $30 Each. After one hit I can regress to $18 each and have just $1 at risk to win $21. Same bet the next hit, then press every other hit, moving up and out from there. This seems like a decent, conservative play based on the two lowest vig bets on the table.

$110 Inside. After two hits regress to $66 inside and have a $4 profit locked up. Same bet the next hit - then press every other hit from there. Again, this seems like a decent, conservative play. It does require two hits to minimize exposure to the seven, but you have more opportunities to hit a paying number.

$120 Outside. After two hits you will have $98 profit in the rack. Make it look like $96 across and lock up $2 profit. Lock up the next hit then press every other hit from there. You have an additional $10 at risk and fewer "ways" to score a win, but every win pays $50 to $1. On a controlled shooter who has a proven advantage on Outside Numbers this might be a strong play. Otherwise, the jury is out on my part.

$96 Across. After two hits you'll have from $42 to $54 locked up, depending on what rolled. Take down the Four and Ten and regress to $44 inside assuming this is a $10 game. At this point you'll either have somewhere from $2 profit to $10 of sevens exposure. Frankly, I've never been a fan of Across Betting, regardless of how you size the bet. It simply takes too many hits to get to the point that a regression will serve you well unless you are betting at least $160 across, and my preference if I were betting across would be to play in the pre-regressions range of $320 to $640 across - out of the reach of most players.

There you have my thoughts. NOT included here is the Single Number Place plus one Come Bet option, which I know some of you prefer. In this example, however, I'd like to stick strictly with pure Place Bet Models.

Let's hear your suggestions and options.

[SHOOTITALL]

$110 Inside. Couple of questions: Are you WOCO? Are you playing the P/L? The fly in the oinment as that changes the dynamics of the play But the 18/36 ration of inside numbers is very attractive.

[Parson]

Even Numbers?...

[DanF]

Speaking for myself, I never start a session with too much invested, pass odds and 6&8 is the way to go. I love 18-18 first hit to 12-12, 3$ on the line, pass only when I shoot.

Now if I see warmup trends I will move to higher regressions if hands are 8-15 rolls and pretty often over 5 rolls.

If rollers have a couple 20+ I will likely go inside with a quick spread to across. And a heavy progression of 3-5 repeaters.

If it gets cold, lay point or 2-3DC.

Usually I plan not to expose myself too much unless I see I'm running good.

[heavy]

Even numbers in an option I like. How would you play it with the same general guidelines?

[DanF]

Even numbers in an option I like. How would you play it with the same general guidelines?

For myself, playing even numbers mean cutting my 4&10 bets half of the 6&8.

But I hammer the inside soo much someday that I leave money on the table doing so.

I like to play a 5$ table and grab a 4 or 10 along with my bets when they run hot...these can be power pressed soo easy, but can cost you quick when they don't hit.

When looking to make a profit, sometimes cutting spendings makes the difference to grab enough to pop your bets up when running hot.

[Parson]

$110 even numbers, collect first on 6 and 8
4 or 10 first hit - go to $35 , next hit go to $100 then collect and press 50% - looking for that 3rd to hit pay $200 ... for me it usually one but not both.
If one is not hitting (or both) after 5-6 tosses - move to inside number that is hitting - 6,8 or 5,9
I take the 6&8 pretty much like this, collect, then $60, $90, collect, $120 reduce to 90 - then press $60 per hit collect the balance

Can press up and out to 5 and 9 if either the 4 or 10 is not hitting - or use the 6 or 8 to fund - for me the 5 ... that way I can choose to make a field play if I am throwing horn numbers ...

[220Inside]

$110 even numbers, collect first on 6 and 8
4 or 10 first hit - go to $35 , next hit go to $100 then collect and press 50% - looking for that 3rd to hit pay $200 ... for me it usually one but not both.
If one is not hitting (or both) after 5-6 tosses - move to inside number that is hitting - 6,8 or 5,9
I take the 6&8 pretty much like this, collect, then $60, $90, collect, $120 reduce to 90 - then press $60 per hit collect the balance

Can press up and out to 5 and 9 if either the 4 or 10 is not hitting - or use the 6 or 8 to fund - for me the 5 ... that way I can choose to make a field play if I am throwing horn numbers ...

The 4 and 10 first hit to $35 depends on the breakpoint for the vig for the place you're playing at. If the vig on $35 is still only $1, then this is a decent move. If the vig on $35 is $2, then I might go to $40 on the first hit.

[memo]

Place to come...a,la Irish..

Place 6,8 at table minimum, followed by two come bets. (maybe more)
It is not real fancy, however there are so many ways to expand on this if the hand develops.

Memo

[Parson]

$110 even numbers, collect first on 6 and 8
4 or 10 first hit - go to $35 , next hit go to $100 then collect and press 50% - looking for that 3rd to hit pay $200 ... for me it usually one but not both.
If one is not hitting (or both) after 5-6 tosses - move to inside number that is hitting - 6,8 or 5,9
I take the 6&8 pretty much like this, collect, then $60, $90, collect, $120 reduce to 90 - then press $60 per hit collect the balance

Can press up and out to 5 and 9 if either the 4 or 10 is not hitting - or use the 6 or 8 to fund - for me the 5 ... that way I can choose to make a field play if I am throwing horn numbers ...

The 4 and 10 first hit to $35 depends on the breakpoint for the vig for the place you're playing at. If the vig on $35 is still only $1, then this is a decent move. If the vig on $35 is $2, then I might go to $40 on the first hit.

Good point, I'm use to Mississippi Casinos that did not charge an extra $1 if I remember correctly.

[DanF]

I like 6-8-9 for 5 units each (85$) first hit take 4&10 buy 20$

Then, up a unit twice on every bet to collect a few hits and powerpress. I sometimes take 5-10 or 4-5 or take a late 5.

Trick made me a few 1-2k sessions, but I usually transition to profit from what I feel is a good plan.

Isn't perfect, someday it sux. But you save a few bux on bad runs by picking 3.

What makes it work is when you spread early to 4&10 cheap and they go crazy...

On bad runs I sometimes drop it to 3 unit bets or 1 units power pressing to 3 on first hit.

[Tgold]

Hi DanF
I like your aggressive progressions.

Your above post: "... But you save a few bux on bad runs by picking 3..."

I agree that its optimum to start with fewer vs greater # of wagers early in the hand so the short hands dont affect our buyin too much.
IMO 2-3 wagers give us a good balance between A) Giving us a sufficient # of remaining bullets to do battle, and B) Having sufficient wagers in action to catch the early stages of that 12-18 toss hand.
Ive utilized a similar approach by starting the hand selecting the three numbers showing the most above expectation(lets say 5,6,9 @ equi amount each). Then, if a non569 presents I would move one wager from 5,6,9 to the Hit#. In the example given lets say a 10 showed on first roll--then move the 9 to the 10, Lets say 8 showed next--then move 6 to the 8...etc. Of course I could easily hit the just removed #s, however, without any other intel I prefer to play what is happening in this hand at this moment.
I also prefer to make my highest press % on the first hit and decreasingly press from that stage going forward.



Continued Success,

[Z-Axis]

An aggressive play (for me) I have been war gaming: place six and eight for $18. First hit, drop $3 and make them both $30 each. Collect on the second hit, on third hit press one to $42.

initial -$36 from the bank with $18 on six and eight
first hit -$39 from the bank with $30 on six and eight
second hit -$4 from the bank with $30 on six and eight
third hit $19 in the bank with $30/$42 on six and eight

[Tgold]

Thx Z-Axis. I like that.

[$5Bill]

November 19th 2020


I have to agree with Heavy’s 6 and 8 play. I was at the casino the other day. I was at a 12 footer. I was at SR1 when a guy came to the table with about $80K in his rack. The only bets he made were the 6 and 8 working on the come-out. Depending on the shooter he would place the 6 and 8 any were from $1200 each to $12,000 each. He would take one hit and then regress both the 6 and 8 until he got another hit and regress again. The lowest I saw his bets get were $300 each. I did see him just take one hit and down several times though especially when he hit it at $12,000. That was a nice profit. The only thing I didn’t like seeing him do was having his bets working on the come-out roll.

$5Bill

[slt1966]

Assuming a $15 table.....Place $66 inside. Press first hit to $35 on 5 or 9, $42 on 6 or 8, If place number repeats, trade $1 for $50 and regress all bets back to $66 inside. Bets are now paid for and then press and collect from there. If number doesn't repeat, press the next hit in the same manner. If a new third number hits, then regress all back to $66 inside and press/collect from there.

[Mattyboyywonder]

The way I’ve been messing around is with the 6&8 at $48 each ($96 total). The 1st hit you collect $56 which leaves $40 at risk. The 2nd hit you collect $56 and drop down to $18 each ($36 total) which leaves a $76 profit. Now I move into a classic place to come strategy and take it from there.

I found an old MP post that says I've got about a 25% shot of hitting the 6 or 8 three times before the 7. Based on the above, three hits gets me back 101% profit on my initial outlay. For me to lose my initial outlay (0 hits) the 7 has to show up prior to a 6 or 8 which occurs about a 37.5% of the time.

[Mattyboyywonder]

The way I’ve been messing around is with the 6&8 at $48 each ($96 total). The 1st hit you collect $56 which leaves $40 at risk. The 2nd hit you collect $56 and drop down to $18 each ($36 total) which leaves a $76 profit. Now I move into a classic place to come strategy and take it from there.

I found an old MP post that says I've got about a 25% shot of hitting the 6 or 8 three times before the 7. Based on the above, three hits gets me back 101% profit on my initial outlay. For me to lose my initial outlay (0 hits) the 7 has to show up prior to a 6 or 8 which occurs about a 37.5% of the time.

After reading the 5-0 thread, I’m think I’m going to try an alteration to how I’ve been playing (outlined above). Instead of collecting the 1st hit on the 6&8 for $56 I think I’ll drop $4 and press the 6&8 $30 each (to $78 each). The 2nd hit I will collect for $91 and regress the 6&8 to $18 each ($36 total) so all together I would be a positive $145 which is 1.45x my maximum at risk ($100). This essentially means I can eat nearly 2 PSO (or no hit equivalent) for every 1 I get 2 hits on the 6&8.

The risk here of course is that the 6&8 don’t hit twice over the course of a roll especially because I no longer am taking risk off the table. Similar to the logic in the 5-0 thread, when I hit I want it to be a multiple of my average bet so that I actually have a chance to claw myself out of a hole without needing a monster roll. So you can call this Press/Regress then from there I will continue with come bets (max 4 numbers in play) and an “up a unit” press strategy every subsequent hit.

[Tgold]

Thx Mattyboyywonder --Good post.
Do you have the link(or exact name or thread for that MP 6/8 post) ?
I remember it from several years ago. However, I dont recall if it was on this board or his now defunct Dice Institute board. Thx in advance.


Continued Success,

[Mattyboyywonder]

Thx Mattyboyywonder --Good post.
Do you have the link(or exact name or thread for that MP 6/8 post) ?
I remember it from several years ago. However, I dont recall if it was on this board or his now defunct Dice Institute board. Thx in advance.

Continued Success,

Thanks, yeah it’s https://axispowercraps.com/crapsforum/ ... 298109193c