Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

What unnerves me is not the DP but the DC. SL1, SR1 can easily bet DP. You gotta get some attention to put money on the DC from SL, SR.

By the way Strat Man, it would be great to toss with you someday. Your "nerves of steel" is a role model for me. I am WAY too sensitive about the "camaraderie" around the table. I think its because when I am tossing and a dark sider is betting, I am always thinking "revenge...hit my number and cream him."

skasower...aka...

Big O wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:44 pm
Do any of you dark siders ever play dark side from next to stick.

I dark side next to the stick whenever I want. I shot from there so am gonna darkside from there, as I try to get to there in the course of play. Don't get pushed to the hook by fear or tradition. As Bill Murray said in Caddyshack after the famous pool dredging scene - "its no big deal". No one has chided me for doing it, and if anyone says something, I just say "Hey, its cold, whaddaya expect?"

D.N8r

skasower wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:58 pm I am always thinking "revenge...hit my number and cream him."

skasower...aka...

As Obi-wan reminds us....."revenge and hate lead to the dark side".......

Also when you start thinking about the other players, you're letting your mind wander.
Focus on your game, its your money - stay in the moment, D.N8r

Good advice DN8R! Thank you.

skasower...aka...

DarthNater wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:06 pm

skasower wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:58 pm I am always thinking "revenge...hit my number and cream him."

skasower...aka...

As Obi-wan reminds us....."revenge and hate lead to the dark side".......

Also when you start thinking about the other players, you're letting your mind wander.
Focus on your game, its your money - stay in the moment, D.N8r

Totally agree again with D.N8r!

You know, really, I don't think people at the table pay that much attention to what others are betting overall. We just think they do for the most part. I noticed when I would collect on a DP bet, most of the time, those who saw the payout actually seemed surprised...like, wow, he bet the DP! By their reaction, IMO, I don't think they even know what I had bet. They just know I got paid and they did not! Hahaha...

By the way...I wish I was back in the states to play with some of you. I'll be coming back sometime this year or next and hopefully something is going on at the time!

Stratman,
Give us a heads up if you come to the States. It would be great to toss some dice with you. By the way, Las Vegas would be a reasonable stop for you on your grand tour! Let us know bubba.

skasower...aka...visits Las Vegas at least quarterly...

Since the other thread popped in the link for this one, I might as well bump it with the following little tidbit:

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/stiffs ... york-goof/

Yep, the MGM has been averaging $2M a day, and with the bounce out of the tables after a year and a half....... hmmmm

Still a super place to play once you get accustomed to the $25 minimums. The no smoking rule hasn't seemed to hurt them either.

I hear the alarms are sounding in Richmond (VA's capital) as a lot of that money flowing across the river to Maryland is Virginia $$$. So I guess I'm a patriot for bringing some of that cash back to Virginny......

D.N8r

PS in the other article the court ruled against the post office to a tune of $3.5M........

Decided to go to MGM-National Harbor recently in search of some dark side love…..

{This is my second time typing this as the website ate my first attempt, so this is going to be a shorter report. }

Upon arrival 6 of the ten tables were going, all at $25. 5 were packed, the sixth was so-so. I decided to get a burger and come back. I looks like all the tables now have the orangy suface – less bouncy.

Upon my return, the sixth table had two darksiders, so wedged myself in next to the stick. Just in time to be greeted by the Sheriff, and then the deputy, sigh. Waited, and got a DC on the 4, laid $50 and it also got knocked off. Fared better with the next two shooters and slowly climbed out of the hole. Four shooters later I was slightly positive, though fighting the sheriff on the come-out sure made it tough. Fortunately no one was making any points, so my replaced DP at $40 was keeping me in the game on each shooter.

I had a $15 Match Play coupon to use. This was my first time at MGM-NH in a couple of months and they’d evidently deemed I was no longer worthy of the $25 Match or the $25 Free bet. It is what it is, I’m still gonna play it. So decided to plop it down on one of the randies figuring that a $30 DP would anchor a OHCM. But the stickman reminded me that minimum bet was $25, so I’d have to go $25 + the coupon. So put that “$40” on the DP. While they were placing ATS bets, I came to realize that I should stay at $25, so reached down and yanked the coupon out from under the green chip. The shooter was one of the darksiders, who after lining up all five dice with sixes up and twos facing – picked two, set, rotated them, set them again, and again – finally tossed. That might as well have been a ritual killing as he produced a seven. I then went to $40 on the DP ($25 + the $15 match). He tossed 3-4 more times all with the ritual until he got another 7, and a win for me. The next darksider had seen enough and left. After grinding out next to nothing on the next two shooters, I got the dice, after almost an hour of table play.

I was now up about $60, after being in the early hole. I considered shooting from the don’t, but decided to go pass line. I also tossed in a $10 world and was reminded that I needed to make it a mimimum $25 World by the stick. I tossed out another nickel for a three way craps, as that was enough action for me. I set the X-6 mutant and got a 1-5 – it was an ace-deuce for a nano-second – LOL. Placed $30 on the 8, and a $25 heat seeker, set the V-3 mutant, and hit a yo – collected on the come & didn’t replace it. Then tossed a 4 & a 10; sorry Heavy, didn’t buy either-but shoulda. Tossed a nine, a ten, then a hard 8 on a really B-A-D toss – but it paid.

Neither die hit the wall on that hardway, waited for the heat wave - but no comments from anybody. After another 4, I made the point. Stickman then commented, “first point in a while”. I said in like an hour literally. I passed on the GWTG and stuck with the V-3 mutant on the come-out – of course, I get a midnight, sigh. It was that kinda session. Then set a point at 5, got another 8, then sevened out. And it was back on the DP train.

Both next two shooters started with the sheriff, but managed to win a No four DC off the second one, and told myself – it’s time to think about going – I was up, so decided to launch an “adios plan” – aka stop as soon as the next don’t is knocked off. Next guy sets a point of six against my DP, I leave it naked and bet a DC-which goes to the nine – I decide to lay $45. Next toss – blammo – big red. My first double pay of the day. When I rack it, I’m at +$175 – my high of the day. I bailed. Save the adios plan for another day, I was up after a 2 hour grind – gotta run……D.N8r

nice report, i am trying to learn the dark side, so really interesting reading about your play.

{This is my second time typing this as the website ate my first attempt, so this is going to be a shorter report. }[/quote,
I know the feeling well, i knew my last report would be long so i tried to write it in word and move it to the forum. After my 2nd try i just shortened it and typed in the forum. Dont lose 3 in a row to the same source right?

Big O,
Exactly! Though I always use Word for my writing here if its more than a paragraph, and naturally the one time I just pump it into the forum direct, it sevens out, sigh....

Keep studying, the dark side is at least half the game, IMHO; as you need to be ready for those icy days, cheers, N8

Really good report. Gone though exactly the same crap..getting knocked off, then coming back. I'm standing there in disbelief as I have my DC go to the four..which of course I lay $40 in back totally positive that since the 4 has been hit around five times shortly ago..and now shooters are going PSO. I have to be in clover. Let's not even go through that BS. I do wait one roll before piling in case the impossible happens..that the four is bullfrogged, right? And there's the four two rolls later! And then the seven shows. I take it as a sign to take a walk for a while. I find more value in Marvin's play..to wait until the 4 isn't hit for 11 rolls or so and then dump on it.

Nellie move? Explain that one?

Steve Nelli is the guy recommended by Dice Coach..which surprised me that he would do such a thing. $3000 bucks for "TheMethod" ?There's another person I found to be interesting..a guy named Ronald Graham. He has tracked 125,000 dice rolls and has detailed statistics and observations. I do use a couple of his ideas when the opportunities present themselves and so far they have proven to be good, but rare. So far. One of them is the number of 4s and 10s in a single hand over 125K rolls. Evidentally they didn't exceed 10 of one of those numbers. Then again I wouldn't count on that if a DI is banging those numbers. But Mister Graham doesn't charge a dime for his stuff.

Jeez, 11 rolls and then bet a No 4? Heavy would have his 8 pressed to $90 by then.

IMHO, Eleven rolls between decisions is not a cool or cold trending table. I would have most likely transitioned by then, though I can recall a few times where I rode out long hands as the shooters made everything but the point. I just depends on where you are in your session, for instance - if I'm down in negative territory, I'd likely get the itch to pull my odds and place the number and wait for the next shooter - however if I'm already got a 6 & 8 working in addition to that don't then I'm looking for a couple of those 11 rolls to be hits for me - then I'd pull my lay odds. I'f I'm up in positive territory, I'll keep riding the streak, pull the lay after a couple of hits and look to press either the 6 or 8.
D.N8r

Nice report D.N8r!

Thnick asked me a question in another thread that aligned well with my last darkside session at MGM-so I thought I'd add it here and then build it into a darkside case study as the session lasted nearly three hours in contrast to my more recent hit & run forays.

MGM-NH has 10 tables, they were operating 7 tables (6 at $25 & 1 at $50) - all packed with people waiting. I circled the pit twice. One table ($25) had two don't players already playing-that's always a green light for me to darkside. My second choice was across from it - where there were audible groans of frustration over back-to-back PSOs. Both tempting choices - I opted for the table with the two darksiders as it offered an immediate opening. I put my players card in the rail as a come-out roll commenced. I told the dealer I'd wait to buy-in until there was a decision on the point - so watched the hand under the guise of good etiquette.

He made the point, so I felt I was already ahead having not bet. My rule of thumb is not to rush in. While I won't do a John Patrick and watch a bunch of shooters do nothing, I will tiptoe in with a minimum DP and a minimum lay of single odds. I really want to win that first shooter bet. If I don't win it - then I limit myself to the minimums for the next two point cycles. In other words I don't want to did two deep of a hole if I misread the temperature. Fortunately, the shooter sevened out in 4 rolls; and I repeated the min DP with odds twice more - both with success. Both short rolls also and no sign of 6s or 8s - hence I declined to try a OHCM attack. The next shooter set a point of 8, so I left me DP naked and bet a $25 DC which was met with an ace-deuce - I took the win (I don't stack) and left the DC up. It went to the 10 and I laid $50 odds. Four tosses later came the seven out; and I was paid for both the DP & the DC. So after four shooters, I am comfortable with the fact that I'm solidly in darkside territory. There was no sign of the sheriff or the deputy, nor many signs of sixes or eights. One guy busted and left, so I slide over and got his spot - so I'd be in a better position to shoot.

That's another plus of finding a cold table, eventually you migrate toward a more advantageous shooting position. Which is good for me as I'm not a super morning person for seeking out empty tables; albeit with a 3 timezone difference morning can come early in Vegas. Regardless at MGM-NH there's nary an empty table; you have to be prepared for full & crowded conditions. What's also gotten to be a frequent observation is that nearly 50% of the NH crowd are setting and lobbing now, vice 100% flingers when it opened 2 years ago. So, you really need to watch the randies and see if they may have some skill - fortunately these four guys were shakers & flingers.

The next guy sets an eight for the point, then tosses a six. It had taken five shooters before they could pair a 6 & 8. I add a second DC, which goes to the five and I lay $45. Then he knocks down my no 6 DC, followed by my DP. As I had a no 5 working I did not replace the DP. I generally don't as I really want a seven to come and pay that DC, so I won't dilute my win with a DP. Sure enough after snake-eyes, he tosses a seven and I take my $$. I go back up on the DC, and he does the same thing - an 8, then a six. This time I opt for a transition and place the 6 & 8 for $30 each and also another $25 DC. BAM - he tosses a seven - two near pushes & a DC loss. Oh well. Next shooter PSOs - thanks. Next shooter sets a point of 5, I lay $45 and decide to wait. He throws three eights, a six, some garbage and sevens out. I get the dice & shoot from the don't. It's been about 45 minutes, and I start with a 7, reload to $35, set a 10. Go up on the 6 & 8 at $30 each, hit the eight twice and then seven out. my toss looked ok, but couldn't seem to hit the same spot.

Four of the 7 guys on the far half of the table wouldn't bet the pass line when I was shooting the Don't- but none of them bet the DP later. The two young guys next to me had been watching all this and the blonde guy says "I didn't know you could shoot from that side?" I said "yeah - this table's been cold since I got here - its not giving us any choice - so if you want to make money, come on over to the dark-side". "How do you do that? they said. "Just toss a chip here", I said. They both did & the shooter threw a craps. They were dumb-founded when they got paid. "Welcome to the darkside, guys". We all reloaded on the DP and scored on a PSO. We now had four guys on one side betting don'ts; one original don't guy bugged out before I shot. The next two shooters also failed to make points. By now I had explained how to lay odds and had ramped my lays up to $60.

More tomorrow......

Sweet wins. Great read. D.N8er.

Very nice DN8r. Love the detail on your thought process of dark side play.

I'm back, thanks BD & 22I for your comments and glad the cruise was good

Now back to MGM-NH, our four darksiders were quietly ringing up wins as the dice came around our direction. Blondie grabbed the dice and set them. Hmmmm, here's was a guy who didn't know what the DP is, but he's setting and lobbing, WTF? He set a point tossed some ok looking tosses then clipped a chip and sevened out losing his PL bet he was using the hardway set-sorta. His buddy laughed at him and proceeded to do basically do the same. I now had the dice. No one had made a point since before I'd first had the dice; we were at about an hour & 45 in to things. Using the V-2 mutant I wound up with 9 as the point for my DP. I placed the 6 & 8, hit the 8 twice, then made the point. Yeah, the guy shooting from the don'ts makes the first point in nearly 2 hours. Smiles ensued from Blondie & friend, while the other darksider next to me chose to color up then and there. He had a ton of green, took for ever, I bet another DP, waited for him to pick up and leave then tossed a really nice seven. I bumped my DP to $40, got no ten for my point, laid $80 odds, banged another 6 & 8, pulled my lay odds, and then sevened out.

I'll compress time a bit....the next 6 or 7 all sevened out. I tried the OHCM on the first guy of that pack - nada, so I waited. There was one appearance by the sheriff by the next shooter and it was tossed on a come-out after the guy had tossed 2,12, 3, 3.... with no horn bet but that seven did knock down his 3 x $25 on the ATS, but the three of us were on the DP, so happy days. Then the guy PSO-ed and Blondie's friend cried out "this table can't get and colder"! Blondie told him to shut-up as he got the dice. Blondie started setting the hardways with the threes up. He got a nine & I laid $75, he then started making numbers: 3,9,9,11,11,8. I saw that 8 and decided to try the OHCM on more time & put out a $30 6 & 8. Blondie's friend was right - it couldn't get colder. Blondie kept setting threes up, made two sixes - the second hard and just kept tossing numbers. His grip was ok, took forever to get those threes on top, but never hit the same landing spot twice. I got a couple more pays and pressed the 6 & 8 to $42 each. I got paid on the eight and was about thinking about pulling my lay when Blondie let them fly. Both dice hit the top of the diamonds on the fly and rattled across all the chips. BLAMMO - he made the point. Bye-bye DP & lay. I put down a $30 DP and his next point was a ten. He tossed another 8 and I did the Heavy Power Press to $90. He hit it, then tossed back-to-back fours.

I pulled my $50 lay, and placed $30 on the ten on the line. No more DP on this guy. After a few more tosses he bangs another 8, then the ten. I make my ten look like $50, and place the 4 for $25. Suffice to say I got another hit on the 8 and a hit on the four. I'm running thru my head what my next moves might be when a guy pushes in on the far side and plops down a huge stack of $20s in mid toss. Fortunately the dice missed all that, bounced off a chip for a hard ten. When the dealer paid my ten, I told him to turn me off. They counted out $1300 in twenties, pushed the dice to Blondie, who tossed a seven, line away. Huge energy draining event, sigh. I decided to color up. Nearly $1600 in profit for those 3 hours. About a third of that was Blondie's doing and me turning off at the right time.

There's a lot of good learning examples here, hence my level detailing in case anyone wants to dissect things, D.N8r

Great report DN, its nice to see how you transition without delay....taking what the table give you.