Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Sharkbyte,

Sure, your idea of going over roll files together is a most excellent idea ! I scanned through the

Zumma Craps System Book trying to find the very hardest rolls to overcome with these systems.

I knew they were there because I had handicapped them on my last swing through the 35,000

Four Queens and Golden Nugget ( DT Vegas ) Zumma recorded rolls.

Sharkbyte, you found that I was looking for .....the worst rolls in the book !

I have started laying out a ' war-gaming ' outline using your Shooter # 956 through Shooter

#997.

Yep ! .....it took that long ( that is + 3 hours and 45 minutes of playing ) for

the 4/10 and Hank's 4/10 System to swim through the horrible 4/4 and 10/10 clustered,

repeating, rolls.

This is great stuff !

Off to YMCA group swim.................

W7

Thank you "Buy The Four" & W7 for explanation & Clarification. I hope readers will be happy & use this to grab back some money from Casino.

Good Nov 1st...........

Well... this Apple computer ate my post. It is out-of-here ! ....back to windows.

Sharkbyte, All......

Zumma rolls off page #64 and starting, as per request, on the first shooter ( #956 ) at the top

of the page :
============================================================

#956......2...4881064....848...97.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
2 = +$10.00 Neural....
4881064 = 4/10 System = - $300.00.
I start off with two $300.00 lay bets on the first4 or 10 points before shifting up to + $500.00 lay bets.
848 = -$15.00 Neural...
97 = +$25.00 Neural...
============================================================
#957.....57.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
57 = + $15.00 Neural....
============================================================
# 957.....7-929-55-66-11-1010-88-7-7-66-67.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Do to the two opening, back-to-back Pl wins rule ( 7-929 ) we sit out the 4/10 & Hanks System as soon
as the second,opening PL win ....the 929. However, the Neural is in play :
7 = -$10.00
929 = -$15.00
55 = -$25.00
66 = -$40.00
As per the Neural manual ....we switch betting sides after the 4th loss. Our next bet will be $65.00 in the PL
box..........
11 = +$65.00
1010 = +$40.00
88 = down two steps to.....+$15.00
7 = down one Neural step.... to the base bet @ +$10.00
7 = + $10.00
66 = +$10.00
67 = -$10.00
======================================================
#959......12-97.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
12 = -$15.00 PL Neural....
97 = -$25.00 Neural.......
========================================================
# 960......7-97.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
7 = +$40.00 Neural...
97 = -$25.00 Neural...
=======================================================
I am stopping and posting.... so this computer will NOT eat this post.
The up/down Neural steps can be confusing if you have never played the Neural System.

It would be much safer to use the Doey/Don't system and wait for the next 4/10 or
O'l Hanks 4/10 DP betting system.... to set-up ?

Thoughts ?
Wolfbyte....

Well, I was a super bad-ass in my most recent previous life in the 1940's. I hurt a lot of people.

I think I was a lesbian in a prior life. I sure do like . . . women.

Yo....Kindred-Earthbounds.....

Well.... I am into........ Trolls, Wombats, Gargoyles & Vampires !

Boy ! .....does Wal Mart hire mega-amounts of Trolls ! ....or what ?

I was telling a female school teacher friend of mine yesterday, how messed-up

I was when I turned 10 years old.... how the male sex drive took over my life.

I found my 10 year old body, at 2:00 AM, humping the hell out of a 30 foot

tall street light pole, in front of the house....and .... I did NOT know why I was doing it !
hummmmmmmmm .

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Sharkbyte, I was looking back over my most-recent run through using Zumma's

book using the 4/10 System with Hank's System and the Neural System.....as glue.

Your Zumma Shooters # 956 through shooter # 970 generated the least profit of any

of the 300 pages in Zumma ( page #64). It spun-off only +$420.00 net.

However, it seems to be just a bump-in-the-road because below are the net $$$ takes,

page by page, from pages #60 to page # 70 :

#60.......... + $1,130.00
#61.......... + $1,665.00
#62.......... + $1,350.00
#63.......... + $2,600.00....nice !
#64.......... + $420.00...A 4/10 DP systems-player nightmare !
#65.......... + $1,965.00....yes...yes....yes !
#66.......... + $1,790.00....Mama needs a new pair of shoes !
#67.......... + $1,395.00
#68.......... + $ 2,845.00 ...Wow !
#69.......... + $1,375.00
#70.......... + $1,095.00

Handicapping the 44's...1010's...47's and 107's from shooter's #956 through shooter # 991 :
===========================================================

#956 = ........4881064 = -10.00 in DP box & - $60.00 full odds & -$300.00 Over-lay bet = (A) bet.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#964 = ........ 1010 = .....no play on odds or over-lay bet because #956 has NOT been " CAPPED-OFF "
by a good non-betted 47 or 107 yet.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#965 = ......... 44 = ....no play on odds or over-lay bet because plays # 956 or #964 have NOT been
" CAPPED-OFF " by a good non-betted 47 or 107 yet....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#965 = ....... -,- 107 A non-play because it contains two back-to-back PL wins just prior to the 107
manifesting ( -,- ). Score it as a......... " non-event. "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#971 = ....... -,- 1010 .....same play as #965....score this play a ....non-event.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#973 = These step-overs were great ! = 44...1010...1010 & another..1010. All done by same player !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#978 = ...... -, -, 47 = same non-scoring, non-event as plays # #965 and #971.....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#983 = ....... 4 (6 ) 4 ....non-scoring non-event do to six rolls between the final outcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#988 = a (B) Progression win ! ....... 10-4-11-5-6-12-7 = only five rolls between point and outcome.
The ( B ) clean-win non-betted outcome is now ...a fact-Jack !
We now move to the ( C) play because the above strings of PLwins appears to be " capped-out "
by the clean (B) play/win ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#991 = a ( C ) WIN ! ....... 43997 = +$15.00 off DP box bet & =$45.00 net off odds bet & + $600.00 (net) off
+$1,200.00 to make +$600.00 over-lay bet.....sweet !
I have made this bet several times because the PL string-of-wins were " capped-off "
...or... the PL ..." cluster-of-wins" ... were..." played-out."

Look at all the 44's and 1010's the 4/10 DP System Trigger's stepped-over in the above plays.
These triggers came about by back-testing over 60,000 real-recorded rolls.

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7
PS: I will add-in Hank's plays to the above shooter's... next.

WOLFBYTE wrote:---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#988 = a (B) Progression win ! ....... 10-4-11-5-6-12-7 = only five rolls between point and outcome.
The ( B ) clean-win non-betted outcome is now ...a fact-Jack !
We now move to the ( C) play because the above strings of PLwins appears to be " capped-out "
by the clean (B) play/win ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#991 = a ( C ) WIN ! ....... 43997 = +$15.00 off DP box bet & =$45.00 net off odds bet & + $600.00 (net) off
+$1,200.00 to make +$600.00 over-lay bet.....sweet !
I have made this bet several times because the PL string-of-wins were " capped-off "
...or... the PL ..." cluster-of-wins" ... were..." played-out."

Wolfbyte:

Great play-by-play. I was thrown off - in my own testing - early on by the skipping, waiting for a 'capped' outcome. One question though...

If I understand correctly, you were waiting to get back in and bet until a 4/7 or 10/7 ( within 6 rolls). You get that at shooter #988. We've only bet/lost at level A, so wouldn't we bet on #991 at level B...not level C? It appears we skipped entirely over the B level bet of $600.

Thanks for all your effort, and sharing all your hard work in testing this out. I look forward to finally understanding your 4/10, and seeing what Hank's is all about.

wolfbyte:

To continue, and I'll let you tell me where I'm wrong...

Let's assume that #991 was actually a B level bet, we must now get a C level bet before moving back down to A. (correct?) What happens losing the C? Wrap it up, and come back another day?

But we won #991.

The next opportunity is #993, setting a 10 as the point. No decision after 6 rolls, bets are down.

Next is #995. Only one PL win - CO 7, and 10 as the point. No decision after 6 rolls, bets are down.

Finally we get #997 and a 4 point. 7-out in 4 rolls, and the series is finished with a C win.

Let me know. Thanks.

Sharkbyte, All..........

Ok .... I did... NOT ... post correctly.................................

We came off a possible loss...but.... we were saved by the six rolls between the point and the outcome on shooter # 988.

The next 4 or 10 point, to set-up, is indeed, off shooter #988. So....... he throws a 10 as his point.

You are correct....I missed it..... we should have bet for a full-recovery of the lost-loot we lost with the ( A)

bet ........oops !

The " C " level bet would then have fallen on the next 4 or 10 to manifest as the C/O roll...in fact....

the very next play @ shooter # 991........... 4...3...9...9...7.

The set up would have been... +$10.00 in DP box... + $30.00 (net win ) off our full 6x odds bet

and the overlay bet of + $800.00 to make us our ...... +$400.00 net.

There is not $600.00 " B " bet. The " B " bet is the recovery of the lost "A " bet $$$'s.....so.... it leaves us

free-and-clear to capture the " C " bet cash... $$$$$. However, the $600.00 bet is used to recover our - $300.00

loss off the " A " bet over-lay loss.

Sharkbyte, you write : " we must get a " C " level bet before moving back down to a " A " bet ( correct ? )... "

I did not CORRECTLY explain. In a perfect World...we NEVER want to play the A, B and C progression....they

are recovery-of-lost-$$$-off-the ( A ) loss.

The bread-and-butter ....NON A, B and C game to play on the 4 and 10 points, on the DP side..... is :

When a 4 or 10 sets-up as the point....we put $5.00 or $10.00 in the DP box and take full free odds ( 6x ) and

at the same time, we over-lay the point for +$300.00.

We want to win this bet, over and over ....forever !

When it fails....we mark a big ... " A " on our charting sheet to let us know we have just lost an " A " bet

and therefore...move-on to the " B " progression bet.

When we lose the A, B and C progression ( It has only happened twice it 35,000 back-to-back Zumma rolls )

we wait for a " Capping " of our just lost $800.00 ...........with a twist.

Back-testing shows we need to wait for two non-betted ( 47 or 107 wins ) to pass us by before betting for a

full loss ( -$800.00 ) recovery at the $1,800.00 LAY BET level once the two non-betted wins.... pass us by.

EXAMPLE :

44 = .......... -$800.00.
47 = .......... 1st non-betted win !
107 = ........ 2nd non-betted win ! We are now locked-and-loaded to bet the $1,800.00 recovery bet next...
107 = ........ WIN ! = +$900.00 ....total recovery...at hand !

This works because we waited for a 107 or 47 bubble, or bias, to manifest, before we betted into it.

Having a 66.66% DP edge that a 7 will come up before the 4 or 10 points, come back, is NOT enough....

we need a betting " trigger-bubble " bias... for our DP Lay bets .... to win in the high 90% range !

I will use Zumma's real craps numbers to lay-out the nuts-and-bolts of the above....

I LOVE THE 66.66 % OVER THE HOUSE......... STARTING OUT EDGE....Sweet !

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7

WOLFBYTE wrote:The " C " level bet would then have fallen on the next 4 or 10 to manifest as the C/O roll...in fact....the very next play @ shooter # 991........... 4...3...9...9...7.

The set up would have been... +$10.00 in DP box... + $30.00 (net win ) off our full 6x odds bet and the overlay bet of + $800.00 to make us our ...... +$400.00 net.

There is not $600.00 " B " bet. The " B " bet is the recovery of the lost "A " bet $$$'s.....so.... it leaves us free-and-clear to capture the " C " bet cash... $$$$$. However, the $600.00 bet is used to recover our - $300.00 loss off the " A " bet over-lay loss.

You have confused me, here. If there is no B bet, then part of the C bet covers our A loss. We coulnd't bet #988 because the loss hadn't yet been capped. So #991 is our first chance to bet the B level, and recover our A losses. Then move on to #997 to collect our C money, free-and-clear.

WOLFBYTE wrote:Sharkbyte, you write : " we must get a " C " level bet before moving back down to a " A " bet ( correct ? )... "I did not CORRECTLY explain. In a perfect World...we NEVER want to play the A, B and C progression....they are recovery-of-lost-$$$-off-the ( A ) loss.

So, after we recover our losses through the B bet, we can (if we choose) revert to the A level and begin again? We aren't all as brave as you.

WOLFBYTE wrote:We want to win this bet, over and over ....forever ! .

You got that right!!!

I think my only chance to understand this is to print it all out and spend some time with it in the library.

Heavy , there was once a topless joint in Memphis called the Library.

Been there - done that. Long story. A friend of mine named Dick was involved. Get your mind out of the gutter.

Little Joe............

Yes and No....... We are using ALL shooters as nothing more than a table-min.-betting-bridge to get us to 4 and 10 rolls &

4 and 10's as C/0 points.

We are playing the 4 and 10 points, & rolls, as a DP play....because...

..........IT SETS UP THE 66.66 PLAYER BIAS ...TO WIN ....sweet !

However, NEVER use Ol' Hank's system when the shooter has set his C/0 roll as a 4 or 10....because.... when he brings up

a 4 or 10....as his C/0 point.....he has shown the fact that he CAN roll 4's or 10's.

With Ol' Hanks 4/10 System.....we want the 4's or 10's, between his point and his outcome, to set-up Ol' Hank's 4/10 system.

We want him to 7-out !

However, when using M. Silverthorne's Neural System, as the freeway to move us to the shooters 4's and 10's... after 4 or 5 back-to-back

losses.....we change from betting in the DP box to betting in the PL box & if we lose the next two PL bets, we revert back to DP box betting.

Play the doey/don't, at table min.'s, and PRESTO ! ....your freeway to the players 4's & 10's ......is solved !

Sharkbyte : I printed-out your last post so I can draw red & yellow all over it .... therefore, reply.

Getting these systems to work right...is .....SUPER IMPORTANT !

Wolfbyte
aka: W7
PS : Off to MD.....food poisoning, last night, from Wal Mart's deli.......weakness to the max !

Little Joe, All...........

You are about 70% correct. Look for my next post. I just finished handicapping page #96 in the

Zumma Craps System Testing Book. I will lay-out the entire page...roll by roll with comments.

SHARKBYTE :

The ' B ' bet $$$ can change ....which is cool !

As posted, on my last play at Harraha's Ricon, as they were closing the table at 2:00AM, another

player and I were the only players as the table. I colored up and stood around to watch

the player's last few plays.

He threw a C/O 4 and three rolls later...he made his point of 4. His next C/O point was another 4...two

rolls later he went 7-out.

His next C/O roll was a 10 ! I could not get the +$850.00 out of my wallet fast enough... (+40.00 vig ).

He rolls a 2-3... and the 2-3 cards are flipped over .....4/3 ....7-out ! ...pay the don't !

So there was no A or B bet....they were " free " set-ups ...I did not bet on them. I went directly to

the " C " bet....and won it.

Sharkbyte....you wrote :

" So, after we recover our losses through the " B " bet, we can revert to the "A "
level and begin again ? We aren't all as brave as you. "

Why would you revert to the " A " game, at that point ? You are playing in a " cluster " of

DP winning plays as you just completed the " B " level game.

As far as being brave.....back-test the hell out of these systems using your Zumma book.... it

will give you the nerves to make the larger bets.

Take a clipboard ...a pen and Zumma book and " pretend...really pretend...as if your financial

life was at stake....that the rolls you are handicapping are real rolls you saw in a live Casino.

I have found that having my brain's hard drive re-formated in a 20 min. demo session,

of Rapid Eye Technology, has caused me to focus and concentrate...at a higher brain wave level.

You can NOT do anything MORE IMPORTANT, ON THIS PLANET , THAN DOING, AT LEAST A 20 MINUTE

DEMO OF WAND WORK OUT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES. IT FOOLS YOUR BRAIN INTO THINKING

IT IS ASLEEP AND YOUR BRAIN THEN " DUMPS " USELESS RUNNING BRAIN PROGRAMS THAT ARE RUNNING

ON OUR BRAINS HARD DRIVE'S ....IN THE BACKGROUND !

Please, please, please, I beg you all .....Go to their site @

http://www.rapideyetechnology.com ...click on the upper left box that says.....find a tech in

your area.....go to the US map and click-on your state......presto ! ...up pops tech's

in your state area.

Their logo ...................... " Finally, something you can really believe in ! "

Dan Rather said it best on 60 Minutes.... " RET really works ! "
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Sharkbyte, All...........

I spent mega time today running a program through Zumma's first 5,000 back-to-back rolls.

The Zumma target was to see patterns on when/what is the best way to play the " B "

bet ? ...........VERY INTERESTING !..... results next.

I am still weak from the food poisoning....so....off to a mini-nap........

W7

Heavy wrote:I'm still trying to figure out 8th grade algebra.

There's an algebra to passing 8th grade ?!?

Yo All .....

I made a bumper sticker-poster for my car today.

At the top is ... UN-WANTED !

Below it I added a 5x7 pic of Omama.... & on the right margin is the caption :

DO NOT VOTE
FOR THIS MAN !

Below it is a truthful statement :

HE IS A KNOWN UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR ...KILLER !

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Well....jessss ! ... I left my new charting book and my Zumma book elsewhere.

So, I cracked page 100 in Zumma tonight using Ol' Hank's System, the Wolfbyte

4/10 System & Sivlerthorne's Neural betting System as the freeway to the

above systems.

PAGES 1 THROUGH 100 :

1..........$1,985.00
2..........$530.00
3..........$980.00
4..........$1,235.00
5..........$1,925.00
6..........$870.00
7..........$1,190.00
8..........$1,035.00
9..........$1,835.00
10........$1,555.00
11........$1,930.00
12........$1,830.00
13........$680.00
14........$2,545.00
15........$1,490.00
16........$1,420.00
17........$785.00
18........$1,290.00
20........$1,115.00

More of the same through page #89...
skipping ahead to page #90 :

90.......$2,710.00
91.......$2,035.00
92.......$1,650.00
93.......$1,040.00
94.......$1,320.00
95.......$1,675.00
96.......$1,875.00
97.......$1,925.00
98.......$1,750.00
99.......$985.00
100.....$1,315.00

I am looking to move closer the the real Casino's....on Zillow
for Vegas houses & looking on net for Panama, City Panama CA.

Heavy, I too looked at Equador. They have 17 Casino's but only

three have craps tables and they have limited hours.

Casino De Royle Holiday Inn....etc.

The woman of Equador need face-work done.

The government of Equador will not let you import

your expat. cars..... as of the first of the year 2012.

I can put up with the heat of Panama by only going out at night.

Flying out to Laughlin on the 15th...........

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7

Sharkbyte, All......

Wow ! being sick this time really brought home the fact that a I am mortal. I'm just

one-blink-of-an-eye away from living with my non-Earthbound kin !

Sharkbyte, After back-testing 5,200 rolls in the Zumma book by only charting what the

next 4 or 10 point's outcome after the first 4/4 or 10/10 has manifested....it

is clear, that NOT waiting for the next 4 or 10 to be " capped " just after the first

4/4 or 10/10 .... is the way to play the "B " bet.

Do not wait for a clean " capping " after the first 4/4 or 10/10 ..... just jump into

the " B " bet back-to-back as soon as the next 4 or 10 sets up as the point.

Boy there are mega amounts of homes for sale in Vegas.....pots full of homes !

I was watching TV when I woke-up and that house-flipper Ormondo guy was

pitching his real estate seminar....again !

Has anyone attended his seminars ? Are they worth it ?

I know Dice C. is into Vegas house snatching.

He said he has about a dozen now ?

W7

WOLFBYTE wrote: Sharkbyte, After back-testing 5,200 rolls in the Zumma book by only charting what the next 4 or 10 point's outcome after the first 4/4 or 10/10 has manifested....it
is clear, that NOT waiting for the next 4 or 10 to be " capped " just after the first 4/4 or 10/10 .... is the way to play the "B " bet.

Do not wait for a clean " capping " after the first 4/4 or 10/10 ..... just jump into the " B " bet back-to-back as soon as the next 4 or 10 sets up as the point.

Glad to see this works. You still get massacred on pg 64/65.

#956 Lose A
#958 Lose B
#962 Caps loss
#964 Lose C
#978 Caps loss
#988 Wins - C - Or, in a previous post you suggest a recovery bet. Call it a D level?
#991 Wins - C
#996 Wins - B
#997 Wins - A
#1000 Loses

I think I understand your 4/10 pretty well. Will test and check out my own bet levels. Whenever you are ready, I for one am interested in hearing about Hanks...

. . . in layman's language please (Hank's).