Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Having purchased the method close to 18 months ago, my primary attitude at this point is "Buyers Remorse", the same feeling I get every time I buy a new car. The initial investment was large, which included one seminar. A second seminar was again expensive. And of course there were the trip expenses associated with 2 trips to Las Vegas. Hour after hour of studying and practicing. I find myself spending less time at the craps table, making fewer and larger bets, with a concentration on what I have learned about Red Avoidance. Betting the dark side has become an increasingly large part of my game, pressing lay bets as they hit from time to time. Actively looking for reasons not to bet, calling off bets, taking bets down. Hot roll signals do not always play out, consequently never pressing the full amount of the bet. More significant than anything else, watching other players leaving the table when their chips are gone, I'm still standing there with a full or slightly diminished chip count or more on the rail than when I began the session. Listening to snide remarks from the dealers, harassment from other players, being laughed at, flipped off, cussed at, called an idiot and the Ad Hominem comments from contributors to this site. All of this weighs heavy on my mind.

So to anyone considering buying the method: If you are not a dice influencer, are you unhappy with your current play? Are you tired of giving your money to the Indian Casinos? There are many choices available to you, should you be interested in pursuing a different approach. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

irish wrote:Well, I've thought the Method was hooey since it was first touted. Just my humble opinion. I have had the opportunity to play on a table where two players were utilizing it.

As Pappy said, it's very disrupting to the table. Second, the dealers start getting pissed off with all the off and on and up and down. And finally, frequently the two players couldn't agree on what they should do. If the system is so muddled that two players using the same system can't agree on what to do, chances are few players are actually able to follow the "rules" and "indicators" properly.

That makes me very mindful of a cash three number picking system someone once explained that he'd bought... the system had you pick a day of the week, a birthday, and an additional number, then you could either add or subtract, multiply or divide whichever other number choosing any of the numbers to do it with... Hell yes it worked [after you knew the answer to arrange the question to suit it]. It sounds like "The Method" is equally loose to the point you could correctly answer after the roll by knowing which variables needed to be plugged in. Its like a math formula that has so many variables that could change and the only way to solve it is to know the answer and then reverse engineer what the question should have been to suit that outcome.

One of those I should always hop the 7 after a 3 except when a 4 rolled 8 rolls ago unless it is Thursday or is after 10PM then I should not hop the 7 unless I think I should, unless Heavy is hopping around on one foot while patting his head and rubbing his belly, or vice versa... in which case maybe I should just pull my bets and try to find an attractive cocktail waitress to make out with.

Disclaimer: The Shunkaha System suggests making out with a hot chick no matter what craps indications are given if she seems even remotely willing. Note: Save the money from the table, undoubtedly she will spend it for you.

I like the Shunkaha System.

shunkaha wrote:
Disclaimer: The Shunkaha System suggests making out with a hot chick no matter what craps indications are given if she seems even remotely willing. Note: Save the money from the table, undoubtedly she will spend it for you.

An off signal indicator for the Shunkaha System is if the chick has a 5 o'clock shadow.

shunkaha wrote: That makes me very mindful of a cash three number picking system someone once explained that he'd bought... the system had you pick a day of the week, a birthday, and an additional number, then you could either add or subtract, multiply or divide whichever other number choosing any of the numbers to do it with... Hell yes it worked [after you knew the answer to arrange the question to suit it]. It sounds like "The Method" is equally loose to the point you could correctly answer after the roll by knowing which variables needed to be plugged in. Its like a math formula that has so many variables that could change and the only way to solve it is to know the answer and then reverse engineer what the question should have been to suit that outcome.

I would agree that roughly 40% or 50% falls under as quoted above. I found myself replaying old losing sessions finding a rule to change my bets, making it a winner. I would describe as a dog chasing his tail.

Another thing that we found was Nelli's numbers appear exaggerated such as 75% to 80% of a certain outcome the seven would appear within so many rolls. Not me or my fellow method friends found that to be the case.

I hope that anybody interested in the Method researchs and finds this thread, hopefully it will save somebody some money. There are some good things in it, but with some research you can find online or in books.

Tricky wrote:

shunkaha wrote: That makes me very mindful of a cash three number picking system someone once explained that he'd bought... the system had you pick a day of the week, a birthday, and an additional number, then you could either add or subtract, multiply or divide whichever other number choosing any of the numbers to do it with... Hell yes it worked [after you knew the answer to arrange the question to suit it]. It sounds like "The Method" is equally loose to the point you could correctly answer after the roll by knowing which variables needed to be plugged in. Its like a math formula that has so many variables that could change and the only way to solve it is to know the answer and then reverse engineer what the question should have been to suit that outcome.

I would agree that roughly 40% or 50% falls under as quoted above. I found myself replaying old losing sessions finding a rule to change my bets, making it a winner. I would describe as a dog chasing his tail.

Another thing that we found was Nelli's numbers appear exaggerated such as 75% to 80% of a certain outcome the seven would appear within so many rolls. Not me or my fellow method friends found that to be the case.

I hope that anybody interested in the Method researchs and finds this thread, hopefully it will save somebody some money. There are some good things in it, but with some research you can find online or in books.

Easy trick for that... almost 100% of the time on 100% of the shooters, a 7 will appear within the first 100 rolls they have. Anyone able to disprove that on a consistent basis... please allow me to come to the casino of your choice to get rich, er prove the validity at a live table. Seriously, all he has to do to make it accurate is pick something like 97% of all rolls you will see over a lifetime will have a 7 before the 21st roll [the math backs it and even if it didn't the defense would be that you're experiencing a short term variance and since it says "lifetime" it makes it harder to dispute]. Bottom line is $5,000 to buy someone's observations to fit a set of circumstances they observed over a period several thousand rolls seems abit steep since it may or may not ever apply correct again.

Heavy wrote:

The primary issue I have with "method" players is often the disruption in the flow of the game. By that I refer to the constant switching of whether your working or not working. Sometimes they call "off" right as the dice are going out and technically the dealer has to dig out one of those off buttons to place on your action. If you have multiple "method" players, sometimes they don't have that many off buttons handy.

PVW and I agree on this 100%. The other problem, when you have method players who are friends playing at the same table, is all the talking and comparing notes if they're standing next to one another, and the "high signs" and signals being flashed across the table when they're at opposite ends. Crazy stuff. But hey, we have so many method players in our "camp" these days . . . how can I not like 'em?

We had a "method" player buy-in at our table while I was playing this morning. What a disaster.......talk about an energy draining event, this fellow completely disrupted the game. Bets off, Bets on, take me down, increase my no 10, hardways this / Yo that, regress my 6 & 8, every roll it was something else. The dealers and stick would "no bet" his late "splash" to the prop box and he would go ballistic on them. Finally the box stepped up and forced him to take his bets down instead of allowing use of the "off" button. Ballistic again! Eventually, with both the Box and TGM busting his chops about all the "late" chit he finally stormed off. Calling this guy a high maintenance player is an understatement.

SIA, watching paint dry would be just fine for DF.........as long as he could take long walks in the mornings, grow some taters and peppers out back and oogle the pretty coktail waitresses (when Gail isn't looking of course).

WC it is easy to determine if you were actually watching DF. 1. Did that person yell COWTIPPIN when he won a parlay on the DP? 2. Did he wave at a pretty woman across the casino floor who saw the wave and responded with a one finger salute? Did you hear him tell the stck that he was passing the dice because he promised his wif he wouldn't shoot dice? If the answer is yes to any of these that was him. Go ahead and approach him next time and tell him Golfer said it was OK.


Golfer

I have played with someone multiple times in Tunica that said he promised his wife he would never shoot the dice!! He always bets the don't as well. I was in the presence of a legend and never knew it!!

Hehe, yeah, I always tell the dealers that I promised my wife I would never shoot dice , which I kinda did.

When I color up , I always say , "The drugs are wearin` off. It`s time for me to go."

Enough about all that. Back to the Method.

Back in the day about 2002 through 2004, I tried finding indicators for what was going to happen on a craps table and was not successful. On my last trip to Tunica , a shooter tossed four straight yos. After the fourth , the guy next to me tossed a red chip and called , "$5 yo'". I guess he felt another yo was indicated. . The next toss was a 5.
So now my thought is the next time I see fours 11`s in a row tossed, my next bet will be to place a 5.

Or maybe I would be all wrong to wager that way . Maybe after a yo is tossed that may be an indication that exactly three more yos are to follow. Enough of this .

My point is that different players interpret the outcome of the toss of the dice in different ways . If the Method satisfies you , use it . If you are a poor ol` craps player like me starting out , you must seek out dollar craps tables and play Oscar` Grind starting out with a $1 DP and then after 13 years of play you should almost have enough money to buy the Method along with the Advanced course.

On my last trip to Tunica , a shooter tossed four straight yos. After the fourth , the guy next to me tossed a red chip and called , "$5 yo'". I guess he felt another yo was indicated. . The next toss was a 5. So now my thought is the next time I see fours 11`s in a row tossed, my next bet will be to place a 5.

If course, the theory on that is when the player said "$5 Yo" the dice (which have ears, by the way) heard "FIVE" so that's what they rolled. Had you followed my old "see a horn - bet a horn" philosophy and parlayed the first his you would have been up town. Then there's Roadrunner's old theory - "see a horn - bet the field - parlay the win to the horn." So a $5 Field bet would have turned into a $10 Horn. Yeah, it's great when things work out like that. Of course, most times they won't.

I thought there was a "See a horn, bet the 5" rule we had out there. Or was it "See a horn, bet the 9"?

The "see a horn" rules are forever in a state of flux.

The Don't Player I observed in Tunica met two of thee D F "indicators"....as I usually bring a few
chips with me from previous play , I move on to another casino by the time the dice
have made a complete circle....so I did not overhear any "drugs have worn off comment...."


W C

But did you hear him shouting about knocking over bovines?

With "Heavy" as moderator and referee : I challenge Steve Nellie to use his method at Casino of his choice in Tunica, and; I will use my Strategy "the Strategy"... on the craps Table for three ... 2 hour sessions (and you can't just sit on the side lines for 1-1/2 hours and make one bet) ... with a minimum of 50 bets (with a conclusion where there' a win or loss). Whoever loses has to refund every one who took their course 10% of their money.... and buy lunch/dinner for all (from axispowercraps up to 20 persons) who attended the event.

I've had plenty of challenges thrown at me through the years - usually from DI nay-sayers who want to discredit me through some side-wager on my ability to influence the dice in live play. The fact that they offer these wagers shows - to me - that they have no concept of how DI really works. Then don't understand long run versus short run - despite the fact that most of them come from an advantage player background. These guys will go on their card counting trips and lose hundreds of thousands of dollars - continuing to bet through all of their losing streaks because they believe the math of the game will ultimately win out. Theoretically, that is correct. Real world, you often run out of money before you're able to capitalize on your advantage. It's still gambling.

The person being challenged in these deals has nothing to gain. He simply gets to "keep" what he already has. But for the challenger, there are the bragging rights associated with "beating" a known/popular individual or strategy. To make any such challenge worthwhile, there has to be something in it for the person being challenged. A few years ago some of the AP crowd was talking about doing a $10,000 challenge against MP. MP countered with something to the effect of "I'll put up my $10K against your $100K." Basically saying that if you are so sure you will be able to beat me then put up or shut up. I think if you were going to interest Nelli in a challenge you'd have to do something similar. Pick a number. Have him put up $5000 against your $50,000. Too rich for you? Then have him put up $2500 against your $25,000. Arrange for a private table in the casino. $100 minimum. $10,000 max bet. Mix of players. Run two trips around the table or a minimum of 60 rolls. Tournament style. The hand that's in progress on roll 60 continues until the shooter sevens out. I'll be glad to serve as monitor, arbiter, and hold the money.

Will anybody be up for this? I have my doubts, but hey. You never know.

I was in disbelief when I saw the kind of $$ being spent on this Method. It was quite the rage a couple of years back hadn't heard much about it recently. From my observations of the folks using it if an eleven showed up Turn my Bets off. A three was no problem. Go figure. Imo it was right up there with the stick change or drink girl (guy) appearing or dice off the table for turning bets off.

Hey, I'm right there turning those bets off on stick change, cocktail server interuptus, and the dice flying off the table. On the first Yo I'll be playing "see a horn bet a horn." Toss two horn numbers in a row and you can turn me off. But most of you know that from reading my posts. Is that part of the method? No. The method is part of me.

Bones wrote:I was in disbelief when I saw the kind of $$ being spent on this Method. It was quite the rage a couple of years back hadn't heard much about it recently. From my observations of the folks using it if an eleven showed up Turn my Bets off. A three was no problem. Go figure. Imo it was right up there with the stick change or drink girl (guy) appearing or dice off the table for turning bets off.

what comes after an 11 ?










............................................. 7

IThough It Was 7 Come 11

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