Heavy's Wrong Way Craps

[koreancowboy]

All that being said, whenever I get bored practicing (online), sometimes I'll use the Martingale system when betting on the Field. I've had some success with that as well.

(I've been practicing online on my phone and computer, haven't been back to the casinos yet for personal reasons)

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You might be interested in Dave's System, which is here on the forum in several different threads. Dave is a Chicago area player who was barred from one of the casinos a couple of years back because he won too much money for their loss tolerance. He never touched the dice and he always bet the Don'ts. Seemed to be a bet big or go home kind of guy. DP plus continuous DC's as I remember. Never lay the four or ten odds. All odds bets were in the same amount - say $600. Get knocked off a couple of DC's and you bring down all odds and wait for a decision on the rest of the bets. Something along those lines. I sometimes play a scaled down version with either $30 or $60 odds, depending on my buy-in.

[Dylanfreake]

Talking about being barred from the casino from winning too much money---last weekend I was at a casino and looked over at the other table and saw the computer on a page with a players name. I was too far away too see details, but I noticed that they keep a tally YTD for money won and lost and also a tally for lifetime play. There also was a line for the last time the player played at the property and his average wager YTD and average wager for lifetime of play. Then at the bottom was the all important Theo (Theoretical loss) both YTD and Lifetime.

CET

[Pitbull14]

How does the casino rate your play if they see you are hedging most of your plays for a small profit?

[London Shooter]

Pitbull, my guess would be if they see a lot of chips in your spot all over the felt then that is good for your rating. You may well be hedging to try and smooth the journey, but overall you are still exposing more money and each hedge comes with its own HE unless you are using free-odds.

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How does the casino rate your play if they see you are hedging most of your plays for a small profit?

Depends on your play. If you are playing the Doey-Don't then taking or laying odds they'll rate you as a $0 or $1 bettor in most places. But if your play is a little more sophisticated - say laying $41 No Four on the Come Out to hedge a $20 Don't Pass bet and a $3 hard four working to hedge your hedge - you're fine. Most pit critters don't really understand hedge betting. As LS said - if you have a bunch of chips on the layout you should get rated on them.

Note that there are multiple components to your rating. One is buy-in amount. One is average bet. One is the pit's assessment of your skill level. One is the length of time you're on the clock. If he notes that hardway hedge bet out there he'll probably rate you as an average skill level or lower due to the higher vig on that bet. That might be offset, however, by the fact that you're playing the Don'ts. Gets pretty complicated because so much is up to the pit critter's judgement.

You can always ask the pit to tell you how he rated you after your session is over with. Most will do that and if you disagree with his assessment you can always ask him to change it.

[220Inside]

Does the perceived skill level rating help or hurt you if they rate you as a skilled player?

[mssthis1]

Does the perceived skill level rating help or hurt you if they rate you as a skilled player?

On craps probably not so much as they don't believe advantage play exists. Blackjack is a different story. There is one pit critter in an unnamed TR casino where I can play $100.00 average BJ for several hours and earn less than 100 tier credits from her rating. Oddly enough the same casino is one of the best raters at craps. The last time I had a long roll there I earned 8500 tier credits on less accumulated action than the stingy critter gave 96 tier credits playing blackjack.

In the joints that now go boxless making a few dealer bets and tossing a couple bucks on middle bets when the pit critter cruises by will go a long way toward improving your rating.

[Dylanfreake]

What they consider a smart player (or a not as stupid as most players ) is one that only makes a PL/DP odds wager, a C/DC odds wager and /or a place 6/8 wager.

Be aware that making a hardways bet once an hour or even once every 10 or 15 minutes may not even be recognized by the pit since they may not take note of wagers only once or twice an hour

My $5 DP laying odds wager gets about $2.35 per hour in comps at MGM properties and 20 cents per hour at CET properties. I bet the same way every time I play at any casino.

[Pitbull14]

Appreciate all the info fellas. At Cherokee tonight, gonna hit VR tomorrow. Will give report this weekend.

[DanF]

Ok, just had a terrible session shooting do's on a 25$ table. What do you do then? Switch darkside!

Throw comeout on 3-2top:2-3facing. Usually gets you up on the outsides.

Then switch to 6-6top:5-5facing. Usualy produce 2-3-6-8-11-12 or 4 kind of seven double pitching dice.

Results. Quickly +300 n gone

[MIKE]

Ok Heavy, I'll get the ball rolling for discussion.

On playing the don't side: The last couple of shooters you noticed 7'd out fairly quickly without making any points.

What do you do?
A. Bet Don't Pass no odds?
B. Bet Don't Pass and lay odds?
C. Bet Don't Pass with odds and make 2 Don't Come bets with odds?
D. Forget the Don't pass, and just lay a long lost number and wait for the 7 to roll.
E. "The Hedge": Lay a lost number and make a place bet on 6 and 8?

Any thoughts?

Bypass the PL / DP by ALL means -

TOO MUCH volatility -

Bite the bullet on the vig and LAY AGAINST the point established -

IF you get knocked off on the 1st point # -

YOU NEED to LOOK AT THE SHOOTER CLOSELY -

IF he/she is " setting " - you are DONE -

IF he/she is a " randy " - you have options-

Options are similar to " forks " -

When you come to a " fork " in the road -

According to Yogi Berra -

" Take it " !

Personally, laying against the point and paying the minimal vig is a much better option than wagering DP / DC and laying odds !

$...eE..$

Why pay the vig on a lay bet if you intent to lay odds against the set point. Just do a doey dont you dont have the sweat the 7 and 11 on the comeout and your only worry is the 12

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Just do a doey dont you dont have the sweat the 7 and 11 on the comeout and your only worry is the 12.

The doey-don't does not protect anything if you're a long run player. The house advantage on the Pass line is 1.41%. The house advantage on the Don't Pass line is nominally the same. It doesn't matter that you are playing both bets. The vig is the vig is the vig. To make this plainer, let's say you have $200 and split it with your wife with instructions that she is to play only the Pass Line for $10 and you will play the Don't Pass line for $10. Her bet has a 1.41% house edge. Your bet carries essentially the same house edge. All you do when you play the doey-don't is expose a larger amount of money to the 1.41% edge. Instead of having $10 minus 1.41% (14 cents) you have $20 minus 1.41% (28 cents).

Winning on the Don'ts isn't that complicated. A review of MP's old "Dodging Bullets on the Dark Side article from about 15 years ago would put you more or less on the right track. But the idea of Laying against the point is EXCEPTIONALLY strong under the right conditions. Those conditions? Often they're the same ones that prompt you to turn your place bets off. Think about that. Turn your place bets off - then Lay the point. Hmmm. Somebody ought to write that down.

[mssthis1]

If the first point has been set but not made, and 2 consecutive horn numbers are rolled that is prime real estate for a lay bet in my book.

[Moe Bettor]

You got that right. Both good comments..going dark after the horn numbers around 6 to 10 rolls on a chop. The 2 is my favorite.

[koreancowboy]

You might be interested in Dave's System, which is here on the forum in several different threads. Dave is a Chicago area player who was barred from one of the casinos a couple of years back because he won too much money for their loss tolerance. He never touched the dice and he always bet the Don'ts. Seemed to be a bet big or go home kind of guy. DP plus continuous DC's as I remember. Never lay the four or ten odds. All odds bets were in the same amount - say $600. Get knocked off a couple of DC's and you bring down all odds and wait for a decision on the rest of the bets. Something along those lines. I sometimes play a scaled down version with either $30 or $60 odds, depending on my buy-in.

I'll check that out, thanks Heavy

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Those of you who would like to read MORE on Wrong Way play might enjoy joining my FaceBook Group Heavy's Wrong Way Craps Group. It's a "closed" group so you have to "apply" and answer a question or two to get added to the group. Great bunch of Don't players with some interesting topics going on. You'll see some familiar handles and some folks you never heard of. Fun times.

[Jack-Master]

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