Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Okay, how many of you guys have been in this situation before? You get to your casino destination of choice and WHAM! On Day One you knock 'em dead and score a HUGE win. Let's just pull a number out of the Heavy Hat of Good Fortune and way you had an hour plus roll PLUS hit the ATS and locked up $6000. You're in town for FOUR days. Now you have a $6000 win plus the $4000 you brought with you for trip bankroll. Day Four rolls around and you get on the plane home with $600 in your pocket. What the f**k happened? How the heck did you lose over $9000 in three and a half days? Are you freaking nuts?

No, you're not. I can testify to that because I've done it myself and it's frustrating as hell. So the QUESTION is - how do you protect an early trip win? Do you just stick it in an envelope and mail it home to yourself? Do you lock it in the safe and trust your self not to invade it? Do you ask the cage to pay you by check instead of cash? Are you THAT disciplined that you won't dip into those funds if you follow that session with ten losing ones? Inquiring minds want to know. How do you protect an early trip win? Let's hear it.

Heavy,
Your suggestion of preparing envelopes for each day at a Casino has been my "go to" solution. I allocate a fixed amount to gamble for each day I will be at the Casino for that trip. Each envelope has the same amount of money and they live in the safe. I typically allow myself $1,000 per day and am able to stop gambling if it gets down to $300 or $400. On winning days, I will re-allocate those wins to envelopes that ended up below my $1,000. On days where all envelopes from past days are at my $1,000, I start adding back on each day evenly. So, if I continue to be a winner, my envelopes each grow.

Now, there have been trips where they shrunk and nothing I did recovered them to the $1,000 each. Sadly, I have to redistribute the lower total equally between the envelopes for the next trip.

Even though my plan is come out ahead and I control myself when I win, I still have not been able to overcome the early losses sometimes and the rest of the week does not go as planned. That is why it is called "gambling" and not "investing." That is also why I am not selecting "gambler" as a career move.

Pretty much though, the envelope system has worked really well for me. Presently, my envelopes are at $2,000 each (winning trips) but the pandemic has freaked me out so I have not taken those envelopes to any casinos since last December 2019.

"Pretty much though, the envelope system has worked really well for me. "

Yup, same here. I was s skeptic at first, but the envelope system works really well for me too. Only problem I have is when the Mrs and I are spending quality time around the slot machine. The envelope gets lighter most every time.

I haven't been to the tables in more than two years. Circumstance has forced me to read youse guys from afar. It's been so long that I've been able to accumulate a pretty significant "war chest"; about 10x my regular buy-in. I've been gaming a larger (to-scale) betting system for the time when I finally am in condition and this damn Chinese virus is held at bay so's I can try playing on the newer $15/25 tables if necessary.

During this time, I've also had to "watch" our finances. There've been a coupla great opportunities to dive into stock market "corrections" and then "take profits". I read something once, written by Jim Cramer. With "big" money that I can't afford to lose, I've been pretty good following his advice:

"Only losers don't pay taxes."

I'm a chicken-little when it comes to playing the tables. I dunno if I'll have the nerve to play the 3-5x minimum that's now required, but if I do, I know for sure that if I was to "win big", that advice would be ringin' in my ears and I'd prolly be gone. Hell, I've quit the table for a $100 win before.

I've consoled myself plenty of times drivin' home early and fleeing a "bad" table wif only $50 or $100 to the good. At 90 minutes' drive it don't amount to much, but it beats workin' for it, or scrimpin' for it. Ifn I was to nail $6000 grand?? Hell, I can't see myself still on the table after getting up 5Gs.

As Paul Newman said as Butch Cassidy, "... just so long as we come out ahead". I ain't there for "entertainment". Only losers don't pay taxes.

Dork, in my eyes nothing wrong with walking away with a $100 or less win. It is $100 I didn't have when I walked in!

bryfromtheharbor wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm Envelope system and each session is independent. The early win is back in the safe. No need to change into some playing scared slow bleed. In a three day I don't play on day one travel day. Next morning two 2hour pre-breakfast sessions and a mid day session. No night play anymore for me. Next morning same two-2hrs sessions follwed by mid day hit and runs before the drive/ flight back. Limited play time get in, get up, get gone.

I do my best to follow this format. Bring your wife and kids and there is little room to gamble My biggest losses come when I lone wolf a trip because I stay on the table WAYYYYYYY too long. Finding alternatives to gambling on a trip help tremendously.

I confess. A couple of years ago I bought a box of those peel-off stick-on printable mailing labels at the office supply store and printed up a bunch of labels; a page of Day One, a page of Day Two, a page of Day Three, etc. all the way up to Take Home Day. Before heading out on an extended casino trip I just grab the file folder with the labels in them and bake up a set of new envelopes for the appropriate number of days and I'm good to go. The envelopes go in the safe and I'm pretty much good to go. With that said, I have two downfalls. I carry a "back up" bankroll in my money clip in addition to the daily allowance that allows me to "re-buy" if I get stupid on any given day. And if I am traveling with my bride - she has the combination to the safe. The latter is probably the worse of those two evils. However, I am reluctant NOT to give her the combination to the safe since I'm getting on up there in years and you never know when you're going to drop dead at the tables at my age. I also make a point to remind her before I leave town without her that if anything happens to me while I'm away to be SURE to inquire about the contents of the room safe if they've taken me to the hospital (or the morgue). No sense in paying any more vig than you have to.

Some folks would think "oh give me a nice big early win" and I will show you how to protect it. Like most things in life - easier said than done because of
the various reasons we gamble. For me the experience of playing craps in a casino and winning some meaningful money by utilizing DI skills and betting strategies is VERY satisfying and great fun as compared to how my life generally unfolds on a daily basis.

So, something as simple and tangible as the envelope system really works and provides the disciple I needed. THANKS Heavy for that and all the great content on your site!

There is no better feeling than going to the office supply store and having to buy more envelopes. It is only trumped by the feeling from taking now filled envelopes to the safe deposit box.....

DN8R

Heavy, what were table conditions when you were playing and lost? what were your betting strategies? Did you lose this money mostly on the shooting of others or your own? I think it would interesting and helpful insight to all of us. So lets play Monday night Quarterback.
Respectfully,
HS

I also make a point to remind her before I leave town without her that if anything happens to me while I'm away to be SURE to inquire about the contents of the room safe if they've taken me to the hospital (or the morgue). No sense in paying any more vig than you have to

This is actually a really good suggestion. I am going to implement it. Shit, at our age anything may happen (and I am not referring to the kind of stuff that Parson and his buddy Aaron can get into).

A small note about envelopes. I usually get to Las Vegas on a Sunday and leave the following Friday. So I carry six envelope in a larger 8.5"X11" envelope. I pull each day's gambling budget out and that goes into my money clip. I still sneak a few hundred bucks into the casino in my wallet for mad, video poker whisky drinking money just in case. I want to observe that I have been way better controlled for quite a few years now. But every once and a while, I get tired of being a responsible gambler (is that an oxymoron?) and I stay up late and try to turn a few hundred into a few thousand. Typically on those evenings I have a great time and end up playing video poker on my wallet money, smoking cigars, and drinking wonderful Single Barrel Jack Daniels Kentucky Whiskey.

For those who make it to Las Vegas, when this f*kn pandemic is over, Sully's Bar at Ballys is going to keep the Single Barrel coming for Diamond level players. The only caveat is that as it gets later and later, there are more bizarre ladies that populate Sully's. This is where you need Parson and Aaron to run interference or those night creature ladies may drag you off and steal what's left of your envelope.

skasower wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:55 pm

I also make a point to remind her before I leave town without her that if anything happens to me while I'm away to be SURE to inquire about the contents of the room safe if they've taken me to the hospital (or the morgue). No sense in paying any more vig than you have to

This is actually a really good suggestion. I am going to implement it. Shit, at our age anything may happen (and I am not referring to the kind of stuff that Parson and his buddy Aaron can get into).

For those who make it to Las Vegas, when this f*kn pandemic is over, Sully's Bar at Ballys is going to keep the Single Barrel coming for Diamond level players. The only caveat is that as it gets later and later, there are more bizarre ladies that populate Sully's. This is where you need Parson and Aaron to run interference or those night creature ladies may drag you off and steal what's left of your envelope.

Ok that was funny, i even went back to read it again to see if i should be offended. Nope still funny.

I do not know how my reputation has become so tainted .... but I did meet the former Mrs Lyle Alzedo at the bar in Ballys in November. But that was because of someone besides Aaron ... but i did giver her two free drink coupons since they were about to expire. Which means it was getting late.

Then there was the lady that was so drunk out of her mind that she thought apparently that cussing us continuously would make us giver cab fare. Poor gal was at Bally's and and needed to get back to Freemont street. I asked why she was broke, she said i lost it playing blackjack.... its the only game i know how to play. I said Mam, you obviously dont know how to play blackjack..

Nevermind about my reputation, i think i may know now .... I too ska have “Tuck” money in my wallet, for those odd times of smoking, drinking, and playing games not needing dice. Dang, there goes my reputation again.

On a serious note, i use the envelope system as well ... in fact if i get up early, i do my best to put what i brought in my take home envelope.

Well dang parson I didn’t know you had a reputation.
Cheers
Grinder

I still use Heavy's envelope system. I hate carrying a bunch of cash on me. I also don't want the TSA at the airport nosing in my business with the risk of them confiscating money for whatever reason. I'd rather not deal with that headache.

I will keep a maximum of cash on me that I feel safe to carry, any extra trip bankroll I keep in envelopes in the hotel room safe. My goal is to start with what I brought to gamble with for day one and make it last throughout the trip. It doesn't always work out that way, but I make every effort to avoid dipping into any additional funds I may have budgeted for the trip. You can't treat your money carelessly. It's your money, you earned it, respect it. A few bucks lost here and there can add up to a big loss really fast.

With substantial wins, I bank with a few different banks that maintain branches in my hometown, Las Vegas, and Biloxi. I established accounts there for the purpose of making deposits. I can then electronically transfer any funds to wherever and whenever once I get home. As a buffer in case I go on tilt, I make sure my ATM cards for these accounts are left at home. I am disciplined, but I also want it to be extremely inconvenient if I am ever tempted to dip back into what I've locked up. Thinking positive, I always pack a few deposit tickets so I can make a bank run if I need too.

Envelope system for me as well. I am always somewhat uncomfortable until I get into the room and can get the bulk of my trip cash (and envelopes) into the room safe.

Heavy's Envelope system is one of the best lessons learned in one of the seminars attended.
I use it for the other games I enjoy as well, Roulette, Video Poker, Sports Book, and Horse Racing when traveling to a Casino.
The envelope is also useful for record keeping, ie: Buy in and Cash out.

The only one I haven't used yet is the one that is addressed to Heavy.

The best way to protect first day winnings is to win on successive days.
But the envelope system is a good back up plan.

Banker_Bro wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:04 am Heavy's Envelope system is one of the best lessons learned in one of the seminars attended.
I use it for the other games I enjoy as well, Roulette, Video Poker, Sports Book, and Horse Racing when traveling to a Casino.
The envelope is also useful for record keeping, ie: Buy in and Cash out.

I also keep multiple envelopes for each game and annotate the puts and takes on those envelopes so I know where I stand.

It’s also important to create additional envelopes so when my craps bankroll grows to a certain point, I cut out a chunk of that and put it into an envelope that gets dropped in the bank. Building envelope deposits is one of the metrics I use to assess my overall gaming performance. It’s not ultra “scientific”, but sure is nice to look at, DN8R

hotshooter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:51 am Heavy, what were table conditions when you were playing and lost? what were your betting strategies? Did you lose this money mostly on the shooting of others or your own? I think it would interesting and helpful insight to all of us. So lets play Monday night Quarterback.
Respectfully,
HS

HS,
Not sure Heavy has gotten to this question yet, since he just put out his monthly newsletter, but I’ll share my outlooks.....

I employ a range of strategies at the tables and don’t measure success by which strategy may or may not have succeeded in a session. As a preface, in football the coaches say there’s three distinctive parts of the game: offense, defense, and special teams. They strive to win 2 of the 3 parts rationalizing that if they do, then more than likely they win the football game.

So, that’s how I approach a craps session; there’s three parts: my tossing, everyone else’s tossing, and special bets (like the ATS). I want to win on each part and employ strategies to win on each. I’m sure the skeptics will whine about the ATS being a bad bet, well, take that shiite to another thread - as if there’s a skilled DI in the house, that I know, then I’m ready to go bet it. There is many a session where I broke even on the first two (tied, I guess) only to be buoyed to profitability by a special bet score. Other days it’s tossing a bunch of a number and power pressing. And then there’s also the sessions that start with a No Ten when the shooter throws a bunch is comeout sevens; or a quiet OHCM that transitions into a 40 minute randy stampede. There’s also those days where nothing goes your way, ie you miss on 2 or even all three parts; so it helps to be disciplined in your limits so you can fight another day.

DN8R

Sage advice, that!

Memo