Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Big O wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:01 pm At the risk of breaking the no politics rule, ALL DICE TOSSES MATTER.

Lkwd wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:14 pm

Big O wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:01 pm At the risk of breaking the no politics rule, ALL DICE TOSSES MATTER.

I Agree. 100% get logged in.


Lkwd

onebok wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:35 am 1. A valid toss flies towards the backwall, hits the deck before contacting the backwall and shortly comes to rest. Forget those designer shots that
circle around the sides and corners. Let's keep this very basic.

2. While anything the dice hits along this path is legal in the casino, the practice rig/table is where one hones a valid DI toss. To hone a valid DI toss means that you're working towards an ideal where the bones hit the deck before hitting the backwall, followed by coming to rest near the backwall. In addition, they should not hit anything that interrupts the movement of either die from the moment you release them to the moment they come to rest. Of course we also need to avoid the seven but let's assume the complexities of grips, trajectories, etc. are all taking place in the honing of a valid DI toss.

3. BT is a statistical tool to take CONSECUTIVE dice results as input and provide analyses that characterize the input in various ways in order
to enhance casino results.

4. If you attempt a valid DI toss and one or both of the dice
- hit the side wall before coming to rest;
- bounce off the rig/table;
- hit a die left on the table from previous attempts;
- hit the puck, chips, stick, chair-rail, floor, etc.;
then you simply do not know what that particular die result is from your own influence.

Your own influence is what skills you hone such that the dice result is unambiguously from your skill and not from having, let's say, a collision with a puck that stops the die prematurely. Moreover, you would never want to PRACTICE trying to get that non-seven by first hitting the chair rail!

5. You simply cannot enter UNKNOWNS into Bonetracker and expect it to reflect reality-based skill. You cannot practice DI as a skill and have the dice both be legal AND make extraneous collisions and then load the results into BT and let BT assume these results are valid and reflect ONLY your DI when they also reflect unknown influences. Most of these unknowns would be SEVENS but were not recorded as such.

6. If you say, "I'll only count my tosses that didn't make extraneous contacts",the result is still bogus. Why? Because the result you did not put into BT could have easily been a SEVEN if that die had not made an extraneous contact. Remember that the trick with DI is to look at CONSECUTIVE rolls between sevens. An SRR that includes any UNKNOWNS among those recorded rolls would likely wreck anyone's CHI-SQUARE or SRR if they were flagged and replaced with sevens.

7. It's much harder to attain a reliable edge in craps than most here think.
The casinos are not worried for obvious reasons.

Parson wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:07 pm I guess I stand Corrected ... but I won't post any results .... they are to unimpressive anyway (disclaimer or otherwise).

DarthNater wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:29 pm Yeah, I saw the All Dice Tosses Matter post (lol), but for assessing YOUR influence and transposing are you really going to count the die that flies one foot and deadcats? I think not. Sure this may be blasphemy to many here; but as we said yesterday there is no bet on the layout for Primary Face Hits. So while I may lose my grip once in X per y number of tosses, both in practice and/or in the casino - for those in practice sessions why would I transpose a FUBARed toss - into my analytics? And in the casino when the toss Fubars - then its random and I'm looking at a 1 in 6 wipeout.

Now, however, if it flies to the LZ and deadcats, then count it. If your spin stops it short of the wall, count it. If it hits the wall on the fly - then you shouldn't be bonetracking - go back to working on your toss. If it bounces funny off the wall - count it - that happens-the diamonds are there for a reason. Oh and if any of those just mentioned tosses result in a seven - count it - don't rationalize it; you're gonna get sevens, and frequently they transpose into something different. If it bounces off your table - don't count it. ***Also if you are losing your grip in practice - then fix that - as X really needs to be zero.

Get your toss stable and repeatable, this is advanced stuff, not first day at the practice rig stuff. The transposition capability in BT is awesome, so get your toss in order - then let 'er roll.

Also, yesterday I got a text about recording tosses, I use pencil and paper; then after the session I click and use the digital entry tool in BT. I find this easier, as switching between right brain & left brain and/or the avoiding that interruption, helps me focus in practice, DN8R

With the emoje, I assume Big O is being facetious.

Parson wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:09 pm Just as a matter of a point here, i would suggest that you make sure you have the correct dice settings on the toss page that is the same as the one you are tossing ..... dont ask me how i got smart enough to figure this out .... but i think it gives you more accurate results.

22Inside wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:27 pm You can't. A book of rolls in BT must use the same set. You would need to hand transpose each roll that was tossed with a different set and normalize them all to a single one.

DarthNater wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:41 am

22Inside wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:27 pm You can't. A book of rolls in BT must use the same set. You would need to hand transpose each roll that was tossed with a different set and normalize them all to a single one.

Actually there is a way to do this with Bonetracker, by making multiple copies of BT on your computer. I am doing this for my different books, naming them, say, "N8BT with 6345 set", and/or "N8BT with 4226 set - Straight Out", etc. Make a BT file for each of your sets, then on the Transpose Tab in Columns X thru AO (User Perm 1 thru 6) you can place up to six sets for transposing.... Then "unhide" rows 33 thru 757 and you can see what each transposed number is from your roll data.

I know that sounds geeky hard, but its really not too bad, and if you muck it up (unlikely), then just make another copy of BT and restart.....

DN8R

22Inside wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:13 am Yes, this is definitely a valid way to do this and let BT do the transposition work for you by having a separate book for each unique set. Thanks Nate. I was answering the question from the perspective of a single BT book.