Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Darth the idea of having a Sniper class is pretty awesome. The ATS is a fun bet and lucrative if you can hit them, but what makes it unique from my perspective is you don't have to look to do some narrow accomplishment like the Fire Bet or Sharpshooter.

The ATS proceeds with each throw of your hand as numbers show up if you can stay away from the seven. Of course we all want to stay away from the seven if we can, lol.

Hops

kumar wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:44 am Now that I have perked interest next question is
What percentage of the money you bet on a shooter would you dedicate to the ATS ? e.g. you plan to have $60 each on the 6/8 and $30 on the 5/9 [because these are the signature numbers for the shooter] or say just $90 each on the 6/8 for a total of $180 ;would you go 5/5/5 or 10/10/10?
Assume the player is a good controlled shooter

I think several of us already kind of answered this with our earlier replies. Depends on what you mean by "shooter". For me, if the shooter is an unknown randy, the answer is $0. Even for shooters that I see toss a hand or two and it looks like they might know something about DI, the answer for me is still almost always $0. I hate having to also put a PL bet out there on those guys to even be able to toss out an ATS bet. If I get into enough of a profit position and one of these possibly decent shooters has the dice, I might loosen the purse strings and do a PL bet, but limit the ATS to 1/1/1 or maybe 2/1/2 and hope I catch a lightning strike. But those situations are rare.

For myself and other known trusted shooters, I'm usually in for 5/5/5. My typical buyin isn't large enough to consider anything larger for a bonus bet. You also need to consider how willing you are to reload in the event of come out 7's that wipe out the bets and clear the ATS board. I might reset once of twice depending how how the hand is progressing but not much more than that before I back off and choose not to reload.

If the known shooter hits the ATS and the house allows rebetting it at some point, whether it be right away or after making the current point, I'll go back up for 25/25/25 and hope that the hot hand catches a bigger additional win. I'm already well in the black for the shooter at that point, so the bigger ATS play feels like a reasonable gamble (and that's what it is) with a relatively small portion of the profit in the rack for the hand. But if I need to reset that bet on a comeout 7. I'll usually start to scale it back.

Funny, I hadn't really concerned myself with a press move after a side or All hit; though I do plow a couple of sheckles into a reload most of the time.

Now that is all swirling around in my brain after an extended practice session today that I just ran thru the Beta after seeing all the fireworks on DiceTrackerPro.

Here is my BoneTracker Beta summation:


Let me translate that pic, on hand # 8 which began on roll 47 (not shown) the Small was hit on roll 61, again on roll 83, with the Tall & All coming on Roll 94. Then it happened again at roll 113, and 117. Now my thinking is really skewed, but also it reinforces some of my prior commentary that you need to load up on betting the Small side and the Tall side. I was using my 12 rich horn set and as I was Bonetracker recording for Biloxi tactics, I couldn't change sets; consequently I rolled 7 2's before my first 12, which I needed for the first All. In fact roll 94 was my first 12 of the session. So, my analytics got stretched quite a bit. I had one other 12 at roll 109. So, going back to the earlier comments, while Analytics can be predictive, real world can be elusive. I had not rolled a 2 or 12 in 57 rolls, then tossed two back-to-back, so is that 1 in 58, or 2 in 59 which becomes 1 in 29.5. Yeah, numbers can drive you crazy as between roll 58 and roll 103, I had 8 2s - statistically that's 1 in 5.75 LOL - that's quite a spread from 1 in 58.

The way I've bet ATS is to generally go more on each side. And start slow each January with the goal to progressively increase the bets thru out the year on my hands. For other DIs, I always ask the question "does XXX know their way around on this table?"; if they do, I might pad my ATS bets. Also, if I'm at a table that I chart as trending warm and getting 3 of the 5 numbers, I might go $1/$1/$1 on a series of 3-4 randies for the simple reason that they only need to make 5 tosses for a side - I know that's blasphemy to the math guys and the Wongs out there, but I actually tracked that tactic two years ago and had a net positive, so for three bucks - yeah - sometimes.

I haven't run this thru the revised Betting Tab as it doesn't do crapless (yet-lol), so I guess I need Heavy to give me a power press move for eight 2's so I can dream tonight, DN8R

DarthNater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:38 am
I haven't run this thru the revised Betting Tab as it doesn't do crapless (yet-lol), so I guess I need Heavy to give me a power press move for eight 2's so I can dream tonight, DN8R

Well, I'm not Heavy, but for 2/12 my press moves are 2x the bet size, once the number is bought. I rack the other 4x.

So, on a $15 table, that might look like (not accounting for vigs)

First hit, 15 goes to 25, rack 68
Second hit, 25 goes to 75, rack 100
Third hit 75 goes to 250 (should be 225, but I round it up here), rack 275
Fourth hit 250 goes to 750, rack 1000
Fifth hit, 750 goes to 2500, rack 2750
Sixth hit 2500 goes to 5000 (table max), rack 12500
Seventh and eight hits, same table max bet, rack 30000 each hit

Total off the table: $76,693

Hope to actually play this scenario out someday. Maybe in Biloxi in a couple of weeks.

Pleasant dreams

I will see some of you at the Beau Rivage Feb 24-27. Please reintroduce yourselves;I would love to say hello and put a face to a name.I am going for a shopping spree that they are having for gold card members +and 3 drawings on Saturday evening [5,7,9 pm] for all players regardless of status.
Back to the subject on hand I like the concept of if one goes 5/5/5 and hits a side then the next bet is 25
Last week at the crap less I was pleasantly surprised;they no longer charge juice upfront on the extremes

I mentioned earlier that my local table pays 34:1 and 174:1. What they don't do is let you re-buy after it hits. Once it hits, it's down until a 7 resets it. I guess for the better payout you only get one crack at it per 7. Oh well...

Another variation I ran into a few months ago (at Isleta in ABQ NM) is that they let you buy in after the first roll ... as long as no one else had already bet it on the Come Out. I watched a guy come to the table and buy in mid-roll ( ) and told the dealers to put him up on the ATS for $5/5/5. My dealer could tell I was perplexed by the move, so he gave me the 411. Not sure how far they allow that? Would they really let you buy in past a certain point? If so, well maybe I need to take another trip to Isleta.

- Chris

Not sure how far they allow that? Would they really let you buy in past a certain point

?

if i understand your question, most places will let you bet it as long as no numbers have been marked.

I try not to bet on other shooters, however on a hot table with guys that i know play alot(not necessarily what i would call DIs with good control) i will. Last night i stopped by Choctaw after dropping my Polaris off at the shop. There was a group of shooters (7 of them) that play together alot and often invite me to play. The shooter with the dice only needed the 4 and 10 for the all. The previous shooter had hit the tall and only needed one number for the all. After about 15 more rolls the shooter hit the all. The next shooter just needed one on each side, the next shooter hit the tall and only needed the 2 and the next shooter hit the tall and only needed the 6 for the small. It was a great run that can lure you in and keep you playing when you probably should stop. This group of guys had great comradery between each other and the dealers. Absolutely no heat of any kind for the short tosses, arm extension and just about any discussion about what had been bet went in the players favor. This group always had the dealers up (sometimes for 5,5,5 ) and on all the place bets. Dealers, box and players all having a good time and interacting.

They were also not enforcing a pass line bet (unless you were shooting) to play the ATS!

Big O wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:41 am

Not sure how far they allow that? Would they really let you buy in past a certain point

?

if i understand your question, most places will let you bet it as long as no numbers have been marked.

That is my understanding as well. The ATS is fair game to be wagered until the first number is marked on it. So if no one bets it at the start of a hand and the dealers are not marking and tracking the ATS numbers as the hand progresses, anyone should be able to put a bet on it and then they will start tracking the numbers made for the bet.

Big O wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:41 am They were also not enforcing a pass line bet (unless you were shooting) to play the ATS!

I've seen that in a couple of places as well. I've also seen places that just require an initial working bet on the comeout that does not need to be a PL bet. In those cases, I've tossed out a field bet if I wanted to get in on the ATS action. Other places still only require that initial PL bet but do not enforce it afterwards. So you could make the initial PL bet to get you up on the ATS and once the point was made, you did not need to go back up on it. Now this latter case may just be the dealers not paying attention to who has ATS bets and who doesn't and making sure that everyone has a corresponding PL bet at all times, but at some places it felt more like a rule rather than just dealer oversight).

In all of those cases, it relaxes the criteria somewhat for when I'm playing the ATS. I might be more prone to toss out a 1/1/1 ATS bet on a shooter if I didn't have to always have an established PL bet that I wouldn't otherwise be making.

Played on a Carnival ship a few weeks age.
You could play it after a roll started as long as a number in the section was not rolled yet.
Not sure about having to play the pass line or not.

midgetcoach wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:05 am Played on a Carnival ship a few weeks age.
You could play it after a roll started as long as a number in the section was not rolled yet.
Not sure about having to play the pass line or not.

I've seen this house rule as well. As long as no numbers had been tossed on the small or tall side, you could bet it. But once any numbers on either side have been marked, you cannot bet on the all.

220 yes I think that is how they were playing it.
Not real familiar with AST as the casinos in my area are all using the FIRE BET