Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Chart a wheel . . . I stopped reading here....

That's fine. Believe what you want. I can only speak to my personal experience in tracking literally thousands of spins through the years. I can assure you that numbers clump up in certain sectors ALL the time - particularly in the trays either side of the green one(s). I've seen clearly defined dealer signatures that disappear whenever a specific croupier goes on break - then bounce right back when he/she returns. I've watched dealers deliberately steer the ball to the opposite side of the wheel when there's a player on the table he doesn't like. I've identified wheels with exploitable bias. I've profited from all of them. I'm not selling a system or strategy there, although I suppose I could - there's certainly a market for it. Truth is - my main reason for playing roulette (other than picking up a few bucks along the way) is to give my feet a rest from craps and hang out at a table where the players frequently smell better than they do at the dice game.

When you say "chart a wheel" are you writing down the numbers as they hit? Discreetly? Does it seem to affect dealers that are steering the ball if they notice?

Heavy wrote: where the players frequently smell better than they do at the dice game.

Cant argue with you on that. Couple of real stinkers on the rail next to me in Cherokee on Saturday.

I have a chart I developed specifically for clump tracking. The numbers from the two halves of the wheel - from 0 to 00 and from 00 to 0 - are laid out in the order that they appear on the wheel with a decent size box under each number. I simply put a tic mark under the number that rolls when it rolls and watch for clumps. Back when I was doing this regularly at one particular casino, I charted the roulette wheel from across the room while I was playing craps. I simply looked up every ten minutes or so and noted the last eight or ten numbers that had rolled as displayed on the tote board. And yes, I have been known to ask for a towel to cover my chips on the craps table while I bolted to the roulette wheel to jump on a particular sector of the wheel for a few spins. Hey, those were fun times. Great job. Company car. Plenty of free time to hang out at the casinos and play. Lots of money to play with (this was before I had kids in college). Yeah, sometimes you don't know how good you have it until it's gone.

One of the perils of playing craps is the fact that your feet get tired of standing at the table for hours on end. That's one of the reasons I took up roulette way back in the day when I was playing 300 craps sessions a year. Roulette was my sit-down game of choice, as I have stated previously, because it moves at a very slow pace (a nice change from craps, and with roulette's higher house edge - you WANT a slow paced game) and quite frequently the game is filled with attractive females (whose company I greatly enjoy). Of course, the challenge is to find an advantage way to play. If you're willing to stare at the ball circling the wheel until you're wheel-sick then you might discover a biased wheel or a dealer signature. Or you can simply track for streaks and trends and try to capitalize on them. This isn't that hard to do, since most casinos even go so far as to provide you with cards to track on and pencils to write with. Yeah, the casino loves a system player.

I talked about my "Maximum Ass Time Grind" farther up this thread. I thought I'd talk about a couple of other strategies that might work for you as well. Of course, the key to winning at Roulette is really this. Get in - get ahead - and get gone. Once you get ahead by . . say 20 - 30% of your buy in . . . don't give it back. Continue to play as long as you are winning, but when the wheel shifts the other way - walk away. Now here are those strategies:

1. The Dozens. There are three "Dozens" bets on the roulette layout. The key to betting the dozens is simple. Bet two of them. If one of them hits it pays 2 to 1 while the losing wager costs you 1. You end up plus 1 unit for the combined play. If the third dozen - the one you did not bet rolls - you lose both of your wagers and you are down 2 units. Likewise, if the 0 or 00 roll you lose. So which two dozen do you bet? Again, pretty simple. You always want to bet the first dozen because those numbers are spread pretty evenly around the wheel, giving you a decent shot no matter which side of the wheel the ball lands in. As for your second bet on the dozens - I suggest betting the same dozen that rolled on the last decision. Of course, if the first dozen rolled on the last roll then you have a decision to make. My decision would be simply to replace the previous bet.

2. Follow the Trend - Both Sides - Let it Ride. Okay, I promise I did not get this play from the "famous gaming author," although in a sense it sounds like something he might have come up with somewhere. We're going to pick an even money wager - Red/Black, High/Low, or Even/Odd - and we're going to bet one unit on each side. Let's say we bet $10 on Red and $10 on Black. One of these wagers will win - one will lose - unless the 0 or 00 roll, in which case both will lose. Let's say Red wins. The dealer takes your $10 from black and pays you $10 on Red. Now we're going to follow the trend by "stacking it - not racking it" and parlaying the $10 win on the Red. You'll also replace the $10 losing bet on Black. If Red rolls again you win $20 and lose $10. Now it's decision time. If you want to be conservative you can take your profit and start over with two $10 bets. If you want to play more aggressively then lock up $10 and press another $10 on Red. Aggressive? Parlay that Red bet to $40 - and of course replace the $10 wager on Black. That third parlay, by the way, is about as far as I'd take this strategy. Yeah, if you look at the tote board you'll see streaks of 3 - 5 or more say way decision occurring on a fairly regular basis. But hey - why push it?

Don't forget to piggyback a buck for the dealer from time to time - and have a little fun with the other players at the table. It beats playing a crappy video poker game for drinks.

That would be a hell of a tidal wave. Then again, Amarillo, Texas used to be an island in a vast inland sea. Dallas was ocean front property. Stranger things have happened.

Yo Heavy, All...........

I have been playing California Indian Casino Card Roulette recently. Do to the

bogas Ca. Indian compact that requires ALL table games to be played with cards, in Ca.

All the roulette numbers are fitted into slots around a wooden wheel and spun using a clicker at each card as the wheel

passes each number. It makes a carnival-like sound as it passes each card.

I took JP's ... " Play 3 dozens, at the end of the layout scheme and merged it

into a 3-step double-up progression.

I wait for a dozen NOT to hit for one or two back-to-back times and then bet

+ $20.00 on thE NON-HIT Dozen.

If I lose, I go to + 40.00 for the next, same dozen bet.

If I win ....back to waiting for a non-hit dozen.

When I lose it, I go up to + $80.00 ( final step ).

This generated + $240.00 on my last time I played it.

It really works well using Zumma's Roulette System Testing Book to back-test from.

However, I need to play it alone because with other players, they tend

to slow the game to a crawl, with all their bets.

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte

Heavy - I've been working a little with Roulette, and your "Dozens" strategy has been presented to me as Roulette "grind" play. That you'll win given enough time. I like your idea better on the hit and run. Two out of three tables last weekend the hit and run would have worked well. Unfortunately - I only played on one of the two that were good for the Dozens strategy, and the other one (which was not kind at all). If I hadn't been behind when I played on the table rolling well for this strategy I would have been up 40% of my buy-in with almost consistent wins as opposed to mostly digging out of my hole from the other table. I guess what I learned is to exercise better table selection (knowing that it's subject to change without notice). It may take more scouting but I'm lucky to have more than one casino in KC, and I'd rather spend time scouting than waiting for the table to make back what I lost and add to the winning (if it does indeed grind out a win given enough time). It has a lot of promise so far and I'm hoping it'll help build the craps bankroll!

Hey, that's good news. I always like to see forum members stretch out and try other games. I definitely think there's an edge to be gained simply by picking up another couple of games. I would launch into a discussion of Parondo's Paradox at this point, but it's almost noon and I have a lunch date with my bride. Google is your friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrondo%27s_paradox

It is an interesting find, but I don't think there is any practical application to traditional casino games.

Thanks Heavy!

I played Roulette for the first time ever on my last trip to Vegas. Played your 3-2 Grind for $5 chips and after an hour I had won $50. For me it is the act of beating the casino and not the amount I won. Will never bet high dollars on the Roulette game ever but it was a good sit down alternative game and for some reason I just do not like card games. Also gave me a chance to talk with some dealers and players and that was relaxing and fun. Looks like Roulette will become my "other game" when I want to rest and not win or lose much!

It is an interesting find, but I don't think there is any practical application to traditional casino games.

Absolutely correct. One of the big system sellers developed a strategy years ago based on Parrondo's Paradox that he sold for a ridiculous price. The system, as I recall, was based on playing a Doey-Don't and alternating between laying and taking odds on the bets after they migrated. In theory, it's not a bad idea. In practical application, however, Parrondo's Paradox does not perform particularly well in gaming or stock market venues. In particular, it fails in casino applications. Why, you ask? Because a casino is not a "natural" world, and Parrondo's Paradox reliies largely on physics. There is nothing natural in the casino - including the cocktail server's . . . big brown eyes. Every game is "fixed" so that you will ultimately lose. Losing at two different rates is not going to help you.

I played Roulette for the first time ever on my last trip to Vegas. Played your 3-2 Grind for $5 chips and after an hour I had won $50. For me it is the act of beating the casino and not the amount I won.

Ah, the "Maximum Ass Time Grind," which I sometimes refer to as the "I lost my ass in Atlantic City and this is the only way I can afford to play the rest of the day" system. Love it.

I've been catching up with posts and came across roulette. A live roulette game is fun and money can be made using John Patrick's action number systems that $5Bill wrote about earlier in this post. On my last two trips to Vegas I made the switch over to electronic roulette. There is no bias on the ball or influence from the dealer. It's purely a random number generator producing the numbers. Which appears to help when using Patrick's numbers since there are not that many numbers not covered.

In November I played electronic roulette at the big "W" casino. I can't say it always works but the first time I played using the first action number system posted by $5Bill produced a return 6.5 times my buy in. The second play produced a return 9 times my buy in and finally the last produced 3 times my buy in.

I can't wait to try it again. As always - play at your own risk - but this game is worth trying.

I have been playing a roulette system for a few months. I am making money with it.
I settle for small wins but they add up. I do not make enough to go pro.
Our local place has the e-roulette game now.
No more 90 minute drives to play unless I am playing craps too.

I've been reviewing the old Roulette thread here this morning and thought I'd bump it up for the benefit of those of you who have never considered the game. I may post more on this before the weekend's done.

A token of appreciation on the same dozen that you're betting can be a help if you happen to stumble across one of those rare birds that can quarter a wheel.

On a side note. A friend of mine only plays Roulette and claims to have a system that works. I haven't asked him to explain it to me. He also has a system for the dogs. If one of them takes a big dump on the way to the gate he runs to the counter and bets on that one.

I have had some success with playing 6 or so single street bets. I give it a hundred bucks. $30 the first go of 6 streets and then $10 on 6 streets making sure to cover the last one hit. The double street quad bet is worthless IMO.

I've used that same strategy betting the puppies.

What is a double street quad bet and why do you think that is worthless but play the single streets instead? I would have thought bar zone tracking and biased wheels all bets on roulette are equally worthless on the U.S. double zero wheel (apart from the funny one where you only get 0,00, 1,2,3 instead of 6 numbers for your money)