Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Yo All.........

Well, the death of our crops ...Holloween....is upon us along with a full moon.

Craps playing is best 2-3 days past the full moon.....so says Professor Rankin,

Univ. of Nv./Reno....after he checked the Reno Casino's ' take ' each month

for 60 months............hummmm ?

I just completed testing O' Hank's DP System through page #9 of Zumma's Craps System

Tester Book. I ran my 4/10 System along side of Hank's System but I did not add-in the

freeway System ( Silverthorne's Neural System ) that I use to move both DP Lay System's

from one play to the next when I am playing alone in the wee hours of the morning.

The Neural stats. are included in the 300 pages of Zumma testing. I am using only

the first 9 Zumma pages of stats for the first breakdowns.

I was studying why these systems seem to win...over and over ?

I think the winning has to do with the in-favor-of-the-DP-player biased odds ?

I mean a 66.66% player-bias is a .... drop-dead-in-your-tracks ......awesome advantage !

So what if they only pay 50% of the bet....I will take the 66.66% ....any day !

Of course through back-testing for 60,000 real recorded rolls, I have found you need betting

' triggers ' to start and stop betting.

My attitude on Neg. Progressions is based on what Harry Gay wrote on JP's board in 2007 :
============================================================

" I don't presume to speak for anyone else, but I am sick and tired of seeing blanket statements
thrown out, stating no one can consistently win at negative expectation casino games.
I do not agree that if you bet every hand, every roll of the dice, the casino will beat the gambler
" in the long run. "
" Speaking from my own ( in-casino ) playing experience, I have come to the conclusion that the
random game of craps runs in cycles. It is during these cyclical occurrences that small windows of
betting opportunities open. Discipline allows betting opportunities into these windows. "
" Starting in 1997 I have made the majority of my living at the casino tables. I thank my lucky
stars I did not pay attention to all the self-proclaimed " experts " that kept telling me how I would lose
in the " long run. " Maybe I will, but it sure is a helluva nice ride, in the meantime !!! "
=============================================================

I thought long and hard on Mr. Gay's postings. I followed him when he was posting and took his
ideas to heart.

Anyway, below are the first 1,166 real recorded, back-to-back, rolls from the Four Queens and GN

Casino's in DT Vegas :

Pages #'s :......4/10 System $$$: .....Ol' Hank's System $$$$ :

#1....................... + $150.00........................+$200.00 =... Hank's...
#2...................... + zero $$$.......................-$650.00 .......ouch !
#3...................... - $150.00......................... + $800.00.....Hank's....
#4...................... + $500.00........................ + $1,050.00...sweet !
#5...................... + $ 1,050.00.................... Zero $$$ = Hank's ....
#6..................... + $500.00......................... - $200.00 =Hank's....
#7..................... + $550.00........................ Zero $$$ = Hank's...
#8..................... - $50.00........................... + $300.00 =Hank's.....
#9..................... + $750.00........................ + $500.00 = Hank's.....

So..... can you see how one system, when it fails, the other totally
different system, steps-up and covers the other system's losses ?

With the Neural System added-in the +/- outcomes are :

Zumma page #'s :

1.......... + $1,985.00 = 150 rolls in 83 minutes....
2.......... + $530.00
3.......... + $980.00 = 100 rolls in 51 minutes....
4.......... + $1,235.00
5.......... + $1,925.00 = 119 rolls in 64 minutes...
6.......... + $870.00
7.......... +$1,190.00 = 150 rolls in 83 minutes...
8.......... +$1,035.00
9......... +$1,835.00 = 108 rolls in 58 minutes...
10....... +$1,555.00
11...... +$1,930.00 = 125 rolls in 68 minutes...
12........ +$1,830.00 = 124 rolls in 68 minutes...
13........ +$680.00
14........ +$2,545.00 = 114 rolls in 62 minutes...
15........ +$1,490.00
16......... +$1,420.00
17......... +$785.00
18......... +$1,290.00 = 130 rolls in 69 minutes....
19......... +$1,160.00
20......... +$1,115.00
21......... +$2,540.00 = 131 rolls in 71 minutes....
22.......... +$1,055.00
23.......... +$2,965.00 = 92 rolls in 51 minutes....
24.......... +1,325.00
25.......... +$2,040.00 = 113 rolls in 62 minutes......

You can see how that - $650.00 loss by O' Hank's System affected the net take on page #2 ?

The above stats. were thrown by the first 595 shooters in Zumma. They rolled the dice 5,048

times. I could continue Zumma posting, page by page, for almost 300 pages ( 35,000 rolls ).

I have not given out the start/stop betting triggers....however...you can see how

I have taken four-figure $$$$ out of Nevada and off the San Diego card craps tables in my last six

trips ?

Up next .....betting triggers........

Thoughts ?
W7

I`m curious about those betting triggers.

Details details details. The board members want to know play-by-play - what moves to you make, when, amounts, etc. Thanks.

Yes, this is exactly the problem we run into when we want to test the "method." Most of us here (if you've been paying attention) already have about 80% of this strategy. But the folks who have purchased the "method" have all signed a non-disclosure agreement with Nelly so they are reluctant to give details on triggers, etc. Makes it impossible to get any independent testing done.

Heavy, MP & ALL Other Flat-Toothed Meat-Eaters....yes, even Horses.....

I re-ran the tree...or is that three... Systems over the first set of rolled numbers

off MP's ....Testing...Testing....Testing...thread.

DO NOT USE O'Hank's DP 4/10 System on those numbers..... they are

way-biased to non-seven-out outcomes.

However, my DP 4/10 System really hangs in and spins-off nice $$$$ as does the

the Neural System. The Neural System works on DI shooter #'s do to switching betting sides

after 4-5 losses, in a row.

Both DP Systems lay-bets are called ' off ' if the new shooter's first two outcomes are PL winners.

Through, extensive, back-testing of new shooters, taking-down ALL Lay bets " caps " off a

possible PL run.

Just sit on your hands and wait for another 66.66% DP player-bias to

manifest.

Hank's System is NOT played on the points of 4 and 10. Those points are played with the 4/10

System.

The 4/10 System is played using a 3-step neg. progression or series....

The [ A ] step only kicks-in if a 4/4 or 10/10 loss happens....otherwise the 4 or 10 point-bet

is set off what level the Neural Systems DP box bet is at.

If you have a $15.00 DP box bet up you take full 6x odds @ + $90.00, and, at

the same time, you make a +$300.00 over-lay bet.

Always the same + $300.00 over-lay bet is played prior to losing it to a 4/4 or 10/10 outcome.

So....say the $10.00 Neural game [ 10,15,25,40,65,105,175,275 ] is at the $25.00 DP box-betting-level

when the 4 or 10 comes up as the point.

We have the $25.00 DP box bet...in its box... and we take full 6x free-odds of $150.00 and, at the same

time, we ...' over-lay-bet ' .... for a straight-up ....+ $300.00. That is our base-systems ... 1st bet.

I make the + $300.00 lay-bet because of the killer-drop-dead player-biased odds of 2 to 1 that a 7

is coming up before the 4 or 10 point repeats.

However, DO NOT PLAY THIS WITH A GOOD DI SHOOTER !

In my 28 junket trips, to Harraha's Laughlin, I have never seen a good DI shooter play ?

When the 4 or 10 point comes back and makes its point [ 4/4 or 10/10 ] I put a big ' A '

next to the 4/4 or 10/10 .... in my charting book. I put 'B's and C's in the book too.

I wait for the next ... ' playable ' ....4 or 10 to come-up as the point. In the ' B ' progression-level

bet..... ' B level ' betting triggers ....are... Super important !

In order to step over repeating ' clusters ' of 4/4's and 10/10's and thus totally ' screw ' with the

game-rule-odds in craps, do not kick-in the recovery-of-lost-loot in-the- A-game by using the B game if ....

the shooter has made two back-to-back PL winners just prior to the new 4 or 10 point being set.

In fact.... sit on your hands after taking-down ALL your lay bets...on both Hank's System and the 4/10

system.....write it off as a ... ' non-betted ' play.

If the shooter's 4 or 10 point rolls six numbers, including the point number, with NO outcome...take

down ALL your lay bets. This rule applies to both the 4/10 System and O'l Hank's System.

Background information ..............................

Off the Oct. 2nd junket flight, I was at the craps table ...alone...and I had brought up the 9, as my point.

I then threw a 10 and I took a $500.00 [ Hank's System ] lay bet. I then threw a 4...so... I took another $ 500.00

lay bet of.... ' No 4. '

Well, I could not bring up the seven to save my life ! I threw past my six-rolls-and -lay-bet

off rule to the 9th roll before calling ' off ' both of my $500.00 bets....in other words.... I

chickened-out.

Sure enough, my next roll was a 7-out and the crew girl said .... " Well, you were the one who

took down your bets ! "

The boxman agreed with me....nine rolls, past the point, was way to many rolls stat-wise.

If the shooter rolls two PL winners, at the start of his shooting, I score it on my tablet this way....

-,- 10,2,5,7. Those two hash marks tell me to... ' NOT BET ' ... on this shooter. Thus, It kills-off

long PL winning outcomes when using these two DP Systems.

However, the Neural System plays all the time, except when a... ' stop-betting trigger '

... is tripped if I have 4 to 6 Neural losses, in a row.

If these rolls happen past the ' A' progression loss ...4,5,8,2,11,9],8,7..... -,- 47....-,-107...

55....6,4,9,2,3,6....( two PL wins, in a row ) DO NOT bet further into the shooter....score it

as a non- event when trying to set-up a ' clean ' progression level 'B ' recovery bet.

When a clean 4/7 or 10/7 outcome passes by ( a capping-off of a possible 4/4 or 10/10

back-to-back run ) ... is now " capped. '

We kick-in the B progression bet of + $600.00 to recover the over-lay bet loss of -$300.00.

If this bet fails ... and it has failed twice in 60,000 back-tested rolls... we again wait for the current

loss to be " capped " before ratcheting-up to recover ALL the previous two lost over-lay bets.

The 66.66% DP player... built-in-craps-bias works almost 100% of the time !

The 3rd and final progression step is the ' C ' level bet. Seeing how these 4/7 and 10/7

outcomes happen in ' clusters ' we are going to exploit the clusterings in the ' C ' betting

level.... of this progression.

Our highest over-lay bet is an $800.00 lay bet to win + $400.00. We will use it.

So....say we are at the Neural base-unit betting level of $10.00 when the " C " level

progression sets-up with a 4 or 10 as the point ?

Our bet would look like this....

DP box = $10.00 with a full 6x odds bet of +$60.00 and our +$800.00 over-lay bet.

Background information................................................

I was playing at Harrah's San Diego and they were trying to close the table @

2:00AM. I had already colored-up and was leaving when the last shooter rolled a 10/10.

So...... I hung around to see what would happen next.....sure enough the 4 came up as his point.

He 7-outed !

I could not get $850.00 out of my wallet fast enough because the classic back-tested 4/4 or 10/10

DP " C " level bet, in short order, kicked in when the next ' 10 point ' appeared.

Eight black chips went to the DP lay-bet box and ......Bamb ! .....right-back with a 7-out !

The stick kid turned to me and said.... " That is the fastest + $400.00 you ever made ! "

I thought to myself.... ' Kid you have no idea how much back-testing it took me to have the balls

to make that bet ! "

That's what it is all about....back-testing until you throw-up gives off the ' mental edge ' to make

the bigger bets.... when they are called for.......

Off to gym ...............

Thoughts ?
W7

Yo, Earthbounds............

It is going to take laying-out, play by play, plays and their " triggers " to show how

to " step-over " repeating 44's and 1010's that manifest.

The worst Zumma examples happen around the 1,000th and 2,000th roll areas in the

Zumma Craps System Testing Book.

Stepping-over " clusters " of repeating 44's and 1010's is the key ' to winning.

The 66.66% DP player bias is NOT enough, for the DP player, to win, long term.

.................Betting triggers are the key to long term DP winning.

EXAMPLE :

On Zumma page # 78 and shooter # 1,176, starts off a mult.- shooter series of plays :

#1,176 = 497 It sets up as = .....10.00 in DP box & full 6x odds of +$60.00 & + $300.00 OVER/LAY on the pt. of 4. = a win !
=========================================================================
#1,177 = ......11-7-1037 = Neural bet only = ( Off on odds bet & over-lay bet ) because the shooter has

a short " history ' ( 11 & 7 ) of being a PL shooter.

When the ' 4 ' sets-up, as the point, by the same shooter, we DO NOT play the 4/10 system....it is now a

NON-RECORDED 4/10 play and not counted in the A,B & C 4/10 progression....
========================================================================
#1,178 = ....... 4104 = an ( A ) step progression loss of... -$10.00 in DP box... -$ 60.00 odds bet & -$300.00 on

over/lay bet.

The same shooter's next roll is... 10-3-9-3-7. We mark it down, in our charting book, as an..... ( ss ) play.

The ...ss... stands for ... Same Shooter.

We play the 103937 as a ( B ) progression recovery-bet on the lost $$$'s

from the ( A ) play....but... because the play is an ' ss ' play, we do not chart it as a ( B ) progression step play.

The previous play of ....4104 ...is NOT yet " Capped " by a clean " B " ....progression win....so....the

non-progression charted " B " play bet is : ....+ $15.00 in DP box... + $90.00( full 6x odds) & + $600.00 =

over/lay bet =................. a win !

RESULTS : = We have wiped-out our " A " play losses.

In order to chart a " B " progression step, in our book.....( 4/7 or 10/7) MUST happen as a " stand-alone "

event and not as an ... " ss " ..... play.

So....we are still looking for a ' clean '... recordable... " B " play.
=======================================================================
#1,179 = .......44....457. The shooter has set-up the exact plays as the above shooter # 1,178 !

The 44 play is = -$10.00 off the DP box & - $60.00 off the full 6x odds bet & -$300.00 off the over/lay bet.

The non-recorded ' ss ' next play is ...457 = +$15.00 in DP box & full 6x odds bet of $90.00= +$45.00 &

our full-recovery, of the " A " play losses, = a +$600.00 over-lay bet to wipe-out the previous - $300.00 over-lay

bet loss. However, still NO clean, recordable " B " progression-step win has manifested.
=======================================================================
#1,180 = ......47 = Finally ! ..... a " B " stand-alone, recordable, win ! The play is :

+$10..00 Neural bet in the DP box & full odds ( 6x ) of +$ 60.00 = +$30.00 net...& over-lay bet of +$300.00 =

+$150.00 net ! .....sweet !

The next 4 or 10 to set-up, as the point...kicks-in the final progression step of " C. "
=======================================================================
#1,181 = ....... 3......1087.

The ' 3 ' roll is : +$10.00 a straight-up Neural DP box play.....collect & wait for next roll play.

The shooters next C/O point is indeed a 10.

Therefore, we set-up the " C " progression bet as :

+$10.00 ( Neural ) in the DP box & full 6x odds bet of +$60.00 & over-lay " C " bet of +$800.00.

RESULTS : = +$10.00 ( net ) DP box Neural bet / + $30.00 (net) odds bet / + $400.00 ( net ) over-lay bet.

We now start this 3-step ( A,B & C ) 4/10 progression series, all over again, by waiting for an " A " level

progression loss.

If the above rolls were :

7-1087.... the same " C " level bets would have set-up. If the rolls were : 11-1087 ...the same " C " level bets

would have set-up.

If the shooter rolled : 7-11-1087.... the " C " lay-bet would NOT have kicked-in because of the two,

back-to-back, PL wins ( 7 & 11 ) prior to the ' 10 ' setting up as the shooters 3rd... play-point.

This way of playing works for me.

It moves the 66.66% DP player-bias up into the high 90% areas !

These systems are is NOT complicated. They were forged from repeating, back tested roll losses.

After a loss, I backed-up and re-played the loss.

Thus..in time..... finding the best way to overcome & correct losses.

Zumma Plays in this post :

#1,176 = 497.
#1,177 = 11-7-1037.
#1,178 = 4104-103937.
#1,179 = 44-457.
#1,180 = 47.
#1,181 =3-1087.

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7

Clear as a bell.

Just joking.

Endless tracking combined with occasional spurts of betting - aptly described as "clusters" - will not prove attractive a lot of players. Alas, most of us came to love craps for the action.

While I realize you have to have some sort of book to test these strategies against - Zumma is never at the table tossing the dice when I'm there.

Heavy & All other Air-Sucking, Carbon-Based, 25-Watt Generators....

I find this way of play jacks-up the fun factor in craps because bets are flying...all the time !

The bet-on-every-play Neural System makes the waiting for the 4/10 and Ol' Hanks Systems

the desert.

Most of the time, I play only in the wee hours of the day at the Ca. Card-Craps Casino's

because I can play alone...thus...DI'ing means nothing and I can have dice roll outcomes in 3 or 4

seconds.

When the stickman dumps the dice tray, in front of me, I scoop-up two....and they are

hitting the back wall before he can pull his dice-boat back.

What is really like watching-paint-dry is having to put up with all the prop betting.

I would rather pitch quarters off the concrete walls, in the parking lot, than stand and

watch all the full-moon betting.... in the prop areas.

W7

While I need to "map" it out, and with more realistic No-4 $ values, I think I got what W7 is saying.

Now, is this your 4/10 DP or Hank's DP 4/10? From what you've written in the past I assumed they were 2 different systems, though not sure why/how you would play 2 systems on the same #s.

Sharkie...........

I should have been clearer.

I have not yet got into the nuts and bolts of Ol'Hank's System yet nor have I

went over the Neural System and all its triggers yet......

W7

pbbbbbttt

It's all easy once you understand it!

I'm still trying to figure out 8th grade algebra.

Yo...Fellow Earth-Wombats...etc...

I have got to go to town....but I thought I would post the difference between O'l Hank's 4/10 System &

my 4/10 System.

They are like salt and pepper.... totally non-interchangable systems. My 4/10 System only plays the C/O

points of 4 and 10.

Hank's 4/10 System only plays the 4's and 10's between the C/0 roll's and the final play outcome of

the point coming back or a 7-out.

It never plays the C/O 4 or 10 points because it wants a 7-out and when the shooter sets-up

a 4 or 10...as the point....the shooter sets-up a history of being able to throw 4's and 10's.

I am going to post naked pages of real rolls from the Four Queens and the Golden Nugget Casinos

when I am finished explaining how these systems work.

That way you-all can paper-and-pad pretend you are at a real Casino and those are the roll

numbers...so... you handicap them using both 4/10 Systems and the Neural System and I will post how

I handicapped them too.

Off to the YMCA outside domed pool.......

Party On.........
W7

Can someone please explain in detail step by step the following 3 systems:

1. Hank's DP 4/10 system.

2. Wolfbytes 4/10 DP system.

3. Both above system glued into the Neural system.

Thanks.

Shiraz.

I think have it..but I could be way wrong.

Hanks DP 4/10 system
* Whenever a 4 or 10 shows up during a hand, you lay that number. You are playing the odds that either the 4 or 10, whichever rolled, will not roll again. If you happen to get picked off; do not lay the 4 or 10 until it they have proven to not repeat.
For example: 5,6,4 (you lay the 4), 5,7 (you win)
For example: 4, (you lay the 4), 3, 5, 6, 4 (you lose, wait 'till 4 follows a 7-out to lay again) Like this: 4, 9, 7 (ok to begin laying 4 when it shows)
I COULD BE WAY WRONG though LOL

Wolfbytes 4/10 DP system

Place a DP bet on every new come-out roll using the Neural System Progression.
We place a DP bet in hopes that a 4 or 10 will be established as the point.
When a 4 or 10 is the point, take full DP odds (this varies depending on which Neural Progression you are on) and lay 300 [STEP A]

DO NOT LAY OR TAKE FULL ODDS IF THE SHOOTER TOSSES TWO FRONT-LINE WINNERS DURING HIS HAND
(for example: 11,7, 4, do not lay or take DP odds because the YO and SEVEN are front-line winners) or (6, 5, 6, 9, 8, 5, 9 do not lay or take DP odds because the shooter made his point of 6 and 9 during his hand)

If we lose [STEP A], we wait until a series of consecutive SEVEN-OUTS occur to move to [STEP B] which is a lay bet of 600.

For example, we began the session with our Neural Base Bet and finally caught a come-out 10 however, the rolls looked like this: 10 (we lay full DP odds and also lay 300 [STEP A], 5, 5, 3, 2, 10 (We lost our [STEP A] bet) We wait until two consecutive SEVEN OUTS to begin using the Neural System

For example: 10, 3, 7 (that is one) 9, 5, 4, 2, 11, 7 (that is our trigger to begin our Neural Bet wherever we left off) When a point of 4 or 10 manifests, we take full DP odds and Lay 600 [Step B]...HOWEVER, we only keep both of our lays up for 6 rolls....on the seventh roll we TAKE EVERYTHING DOWN.

IF WE LOSE OUR [STEP B] BET, we then repeat the cycle and make our final progression lay of 1,200 [STEP C]

RULES IN A NUTSHELL
-Use the Neural Progression in DP waiting for a point of 4 or 10
-Take full DP odds and Lay point depending on which step you are on [A, B, C]
-Discontinue Neural Progression in DP if shooter makes two points in a row or you lose a base progression bet [A, B, C].
-Continue progression when two consecutive seven-outs occur.
-When you reach Step B or C, only keep lay up for 6 rolls
-DO NOT PLAY THIS SYSTEM ON DI's

Hope this helps and I hope I read Wolfs post correctly.

Hello, Buy The Four....

You are on the right track ! However, we need to re-state the 4/10 & Hank's DP System triggers.

On paragraph # 3 you write :

" For example: 4, ( you lay the 4 ) 3,5,6,4.....this is not correct....you NEVER PLAY A POINT OF 4 OR 10 WHEN USING HANK'S

SYSTEM....because...... the shooter has just shown he can throw 4's or 10's by coming out with a C/0 point of 4.
============================================================================

In your post ............ ' This is Wolfbytes DP lay 4/10 play. '

Your first paragraph is almost correct. In the last line you write : " ( this varies depending on which Neural progression you are on )

and lay 300 [ STEP A}.

No, you need to remove { STEP A }..... because Step # A is scored, as such, ONLY AFTER YOUR FIRST LOSS TO A 4/4 OR

10/10. The A,B & C progression is a loss-recovery progression.

In the begining of your 2nd paragraph on ....Wolfbytes 4/10 DP System....you start off with .... " DO NOT LAY OR TAKE FULL ODDS

IF THE SHOOTER TOSSES TWO FRONT-LINE WINNERS DURING HIS HAND.

It should read :

.... DO NOT TAKE ODDS ON YOUR DP NEURAL BOX BET OR TAKE THE +$300.00 OVER-LAY ADD-ON BET IF THE

SHOOTER, AT THE BEGINING OF HIS SHOOTING, MAKES TWO PL WINS, IN A ROW, AND THEN COMES UP WITH A 4 OR 10, AS HIS POINT,

ON HIS 3RD HAND.

EXAMPLE :

Zumma's shooter #90's shoot numbers are :

12-7-7-5103115-3-3-828-910101283868610687.

We DO NOT score 12's ( a non-event when using the 4/10 System ). The back to back 7's tell us to totally lay-off this shooter using

the 4/10 DP System because he now has a short ' History ' of being able to make his PL points.

We play-out his hand ONLY using the Neural System .....or.....use a DOEY- DON'T to keep the dice ,and the game going, if you are the

only shooter or...... the only player at the table.

Put the table min. bet in both the DP box and, at the same time....put a min. table bet in the PL box.

That way, we can only lose to the 12 and we do not really care to win $$$ off the Silverthorne Neural System.... anyway.

In fact, we are just using it, like a cheap whore, to move us to ' clusters ' of player-biased plays found in the 4/10 System and in Hank's

System.

However, making a table $10.00 min. bet on the DP side will limit our DP odds bet to 6X odds ...or a max. bet of +$60.00....OK ..

so what ? ...NO BIG DEAL....

So, player # 90, after the back-to-back PL winners of ....7's is now ' dead ' to using the 4/10 System FOR THE REST OF

HIS HANDS ( 5193115-3-3-828-9............7 ).

Since we are using two DP Systems, this ' capping-off ' of PL player's winning hands by limiting his start-shooting-PL-wins to two in-a-row

is another key to winning using these two DP Systems. Sit back and wait for the next shooter.............

Your 3rd paragraph is not correct :

" If we lose { STEP A ], we wait until a series of consecutive SEVEN-OUTS occur to move to [ STEP B ] which is a lay bet of $600.00. "

It should read :

If we lose [ STEP A ] ( A 4/4 or 10/10 bet ) we wait for the next 4 or 10 C/O point to set-up. When the next 4 or 10 sets up as the point, We ONLY

play the NEURAL PROGRESSION....NO ODDS BET AND NO OVER-LAY BET OF $300.00 ...because .... it is key to have this

play ..... 7-out in LESS THAN 6 rolls....including the point. Extensive back-testing says 6 rolls is the best way to play this.

Therefore, after the sixth roll......take down ALL your lay bets and repeat this play until a valid " B " play is found.

If the play does 7-out within the six rolls, IT IS a valid .... " B " play and as such, it leads us into the $$$$ play....the " C " play.

It is awesome how well these triggers work ! Look back to my real card craps $$$ play ...at Harraha's Ricon and you will see a

classic ... A, B and C for the full + $400.00 net in the " C " progression step. All the steps were completed in just a few minutes !

The rest of your post is good.

Buy The Four...thank you for helping to explain these Systems.

If you back test these systems at home until.... ' the cows come home ' ....it will give you stainless-steel balls when you are required to

make the $800.00 " C " lay bet. Often I will be playing these systems, at a real Casino, and I will think ... " Is this hand a real hand or

is this hand a practice hand ? "

The practice has an way of blending with real casino playing. That is a good thing because, you will find

practice hands are carbon-copies of your real Casino hands !

That means 4-figure take-home loot ( $$$$ ) each time ( for my last six trips...anyway ) you go to a real

Casino.....

I take extreme pleasure in screwing the house-edge-odds, in craps, back to the player ! However, the 66.66% built-in

DP player advantage ...is NOT enough to win, in the long term. Betting triggers are the key to long term winning !
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You may ask.....why is he sharing his systems with us ?

Well, I was a super bad-ass in my most recent previous life in the 1940's. I hurt a lot of people.

To this day, I freak-out whenever I pass the Folsem Prison. My past-life guru and trance-guy says I am buried very

close to the South Prison Gate.......hummmm.......no wonder I go .... ' SPASTIC ' .... whenever I drive past that gate.

I am trying to " give back " a little of what I took from people in the 1940's. It is that simple.

Party On..........

W7

W7, I just received a copy of Zumma's book. Would you be willing to run through shooters 956 to 970 (or 985), so I can compare my testing to yours? Just the 2 4/10 plays are fine. I don't have a full understanding of the Nueral system yet.

Thanks.

Thanks Wolfbyte!

I got a little confused with the way it was posted but you cleared it up for me. I thank I may give this a whirl at Rincon this Saturday...sweeet!