Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Greetings All;

I'm not sure why this game caught my eye but imho, I think it is a Great alternative. It has the lowest house edge. Imagine playing Black and Red on the roulette table and if a green zero or two show up it's a push. Imagine the Black having an edge over Red so much so that if Black wins u have to tip the dealer 5%.

I've been dabbling with Bacc for about 1 year now with good results. I'm very far from being an expert, it is basically like a coin flip decision. Has anybody else discovered this game.

Thoughts

B Bones

Baccarat is on my short list of games too, Bobby. It's a great game for catching streaks. On the flip side - you really should stick to some hard and fast rules about chasing on a choppy game. I've had some ugly sessions . . .

Do you play a particular strategy or just wing it?

Knowing that Banker has an advantage, i noticed that a run of 5 Players is rare. Of course, it does happen occasionally. Sometimes twice in one shoe. I play Banker after a Player hand appears and bet a martingaleish progression.
Usually 25, 50 105 250 515. If it gets to the last stage Might even toss out $5 on the Dragon bet on player side. There is a $5 table at the local establishment and often I will start out with $5 and kick myself in the butt for playing chickenly. The last bet is a pretty much bend over hang on to your ankles just to break even. Runs of four are common which is why I hang in for 5. If it goes to number six , ouch, dbl ouch.

It has happened to me twice but overall I am still up. The Grand's Bacc display shows the entire shoe, which is a plus. If I walk in and see 3 player hands in a row I quickly buy in, I start salivating, lol. I'll jump in with $105 and if I win Color in. Like you said Hit and run. It's all about luck, and if you stay for the entire shoe chances are you will see the player run for 8 or 9. The advanatge of living close to a casino. I ask plenty of Di's another one of your questions, Do you wanna win or do you want to gamble?

Some folks will say that the odds don't change. Every hand is the same odds, but MP wrote an article on that subject awhile back which I really enjoyed. I need to reread it but he equated it to a rain storm. Some will say it's only drops of rain. Well there's more to it than that.

I've seen folks play same bet as last decision opp last decision trying for streaks , pos progressions.
What's your favorite play?

Bobby B

Yeah, I usually play same bet as last decision and play a paroli - positive progression - increasing my bet one unit on each win but regressing back to a single unit after a loss. Continue betting one unit until you have a win - then it's up a unit as you win again.

Please explain the paroli positive progression
Thanx

Can one play Bac for small stakes? Is mini-bac exactly the same or slightly different rules for small stakes? Should one play for larger stakes if rules/odds differ?

Mini-bac is the same game but the dealer deals all of the cards. Because it is dealt by the dealer Mini-bac moves at a much faster pace than the big game. Since the pace is faster you lose faster - after all it IS a negative expectation game.

A Paroli progression is pretty simple. When I play it I start out playing one unit - always on Banker. On every win I press one unit. So a series of five consecutive wins in a $10 game would see me betting $10, $20, $30, $40, $50. My sixth bet would be $60. If that bet lost then my seventh bet would be $10. As long as you are losing you continue making $10 bets, but you always increase on a win. The theory is you're winning more when you're winning and losing less when you're losing. It is all about capitalizing on streaks.

Yo Kindred-Earthbounds.....

Jesssss ...it's good to have this site back up ! I have been like a fish-out-of-water when pro-boards went nuts !

Off to Harraha's Ricon in Northern SD within the hour. I have been using Trace Cooper's Bac. System online at Bodog Casino.

I play 50-50 games on-line :....Red/Black...High/Low...Odd/Even....Player/Bank...PL/DP.

Bodog has a low min. bet of $1.00 per hand and TC's 9-Step Progression is :

T-1-1
T-1-2
T-1-3
T-2-4
T-2-5
T-2-6
T-3-7
T-3-8
T-3-9

Each set ( 1,2,3) has a different set of rules. I like this system. It was a computer generated system thqt played itself for 1,000,000's of times and came up with the best way to play based on its play.

It claims a +94% win rate......hummmmmm ?.....testing,testing.

I do feel like an idot !

I generated a +$500.00 profit ,in 9 days, playing online and playing a table-min. TC progression : 1.00,1.00,1.00,3.00,5.00,8.00,7.00,10.00 and 14.00. The 5% Banker win vig IS NOT 5% WHEN YOU PLAY AT THE TABLE MIN. OF $1.00 !

They charge .25 cents vig on a 1.00 Banker win !.... jessssssssssssss ....no wonder it took me FOREVER to to make $10.00 per session !

Anyway, I cashed-out when I reached +$500.00.

They had me jump through hoops to cash-out....A photo copy of my DL...a Photo-Copy of my CC and a lead-tracing of the numbers on it. ....all front and back copies were required...= TOO DARK FAX THEM AGAIN !

Anyway I was sitting on my porch when the FedX van pulled in. It had to go 30 miles to get here ( Kings River @ Central Valley, Ca. ). I signed for the large envelope and sure enough... a check from BoDog
Online Casino was inside for $500.01 !

It was drawn on a B of A branch from an Indian named town in Canada and distributed through a holding Company in Fla.

I made a color photo-copy of the check with a ribbon of laced ( real) $50.00 bills, as a background, and framed the copy and hung it on my wall.

An .... "Online Casino Kill ! "

Jim
AKA : W7 and WWWWWWW ( White...WhiskeyWolf...Wanta-be- White-Light Wombat Wizard )

So that strategy is sort of a slow fibo with a regression tossed in?

Dicepops,
You can play small stakes but will have to look around. Downtown Las Vegas has some $10 and $15 tables but if you ever come to Biloxi, The Grand has a $5 Bacc table.

The Mini Bacc is faster, as Heavy states. I wandered into a regular Bacc table in Vegas. Aggh. The dealer actually allows the players to turn over the cards. It was PAINFULLY SLOW. The dealer will give you the two cards to look at and turn over. It's as if they were trying to rub the spots off the cards, taking f o r e v e r to turn them over, just bending them up ever so slightly and peeking at them. I don't get the drama, lol, the cards are not changing, just flip the freakin cards over. A new deck every shoe as the cards are destroyed.

In Biloxi Regular Bacc game is occasionally at the Beau Rivage, $100 minimum. Sometimes I'll watch, very briefly, in amusing amazement.

B Bones

In Macau the players "roll" the cards back, essentially mutilating them. Frequently they'll tear the cards or just flat-out rip them apart. I heard or read somewhere that Macau casinos use something like 15,000 decks of Baccarat cards a day.

H;
Yeah, they seem to be a cheaper quality card, and a new deck every hand. I can't understand the fun in bending , peeking, and such at the hand, it is what it is.

I came across another Bacc system. It looks promising, lol, I guess they all do. It is a Grind, thought u might take a look when u get a chance.

Wait for two like results lets say PP

Your first bet is one unit B
If B shows u collect one unit and wait for two in a row to bet again - if P shows you bet 2 units on B

If you win you have lost one, won 2 and are up +1
if you lose again you will switch teams and bet one unit on P (This is a very hard bet for me as I usually drool when 4 Player hands show and want to bet Banker)

If B appears you lost 4 units which is the most u can lose for any sequence
If P appears you collect one unit and just leave one unit up until it changes back to B and then wait once again for two in a row to appear, it can be PP or BB

The real killer is if you get a couple of runs of 4. BBBB PPPP BBBB would have crippling effect. You could easily play this system with green and then increase after losing session. Lots of options of course.

Hope I explained it well enough.

Any thoughts?

B

The card rolling/bending/tearing thing with a lot of the Asian players is all about delayed gratification, I think. Will have to digest your getting strategy a bit before commenting. Too many things on the plate to do it right now. Maybe someone else will chime in.

Well, forget about chasing the Banker after a couple of Player hands. Player went 9 times in a row yesterday, ouch, double ouch. Wish the craps table hadn't been so crowded.

Bones

.
I read the book by John Q on winning the Tie at Mini Bac

You are expected to score Bank and Player plus also draw geometric diagrams on same card............

Gave it a try couple times back to back and the thing actually worked.

Returned several days later and the 3rd time was NO CHARM .

Tried to contact the author with several questions. The publisher seems out of business.


I have since put the Q SYSTEM on extended hold



Go figure..............

W C

Heavy,
What are your thoughts on this.......A friend sent me the info below.

"""""Your odds don't increase, you are dealing with expectation
If you take the Zumma 72 book the streak distribution is;

Singles = 25%
2 series = 25% (so no value in betting against chops only)
3 series = 18.75% (not much value betting against 2's)
4 series = 12.5% (as you can see, better to bet against 3's than 2's)
5 series = 7.8% (marginally better to wait for streaks of 4)

-That first line will always be P,B,P or B,P,B repeating until the end of the shoe.
**there will be around 40 entries on that line**

-The second line or 2 in a rows/repeats of TWO.
**there will be around 20 entries on that line**

-The third line or 3 in a rows/repeats of THREE.
**there will be around 10 entries on that line**

-The fourth line or 4 in a rows/repeats of FOUR.
**there will be around 5 entries on that line**

-The fifth line or 5 in a rows/repeats of FIVE.
**there will be around 3 entries on that line**

-The sixth line or 6 or more in a rows/repeats.
**will only happen about 1-2 times per shoe*""""




Well, I am going to try a 3 step progression (1unit 2unit and 4unit) after I see 3 player hands in a row start betting OLD. The most I will lose would be 7 units instead of losing my ass. It would have to be a run of 6 which shouldn't ,lol, occur but once in 2 shoes.

I will have a win goal of 4units.



Might also start a 2 step progression if I see 5 banker hands in a row.

Bobby

The one open craps table is packed so off to the Bacc table.

Well, Expect the unexpected. It was a fairly new shoe which showed

pp
bb
ppp

Yikes, 3 Player hands in a row so i quickly buy in. Just in time to watch it go 6 Players in a row. Down 7 units.

Then it jumps to Banker and don't u know. 3 Bankers in a row , jump on it again ( even though I was supposed to wait for 5 Bankers to appear) to witness 6 Banker hands in a row but I only lost 3 units as I abandoned the 3 step progression to a two step.

Then I won two hands and am down 8 units. I'm feeling like I can make it back. There were three others at table but now only me and one other. Unlike your desire to be at empty craps table, at Bacc you want others so u don't have to bet every hand.

Then whilst waiting for my trigger (3 in a row) the other player says "Let me try this" and places a green chip on the "Tie" bet. This is a high vig bet and pays 9 for 1. I've been by told by others that instead of betting the Tie you would be better off betting somebody that the sun was going to explode.

Apparently not a good bet.

The cards are dealt. Two face cards for Player which is Zero and face card and 3 for banker which is a 3. Next player card reveals another face card , so Player has Zero and Banker has 3 and will draw one more card and of course draws a 7 giving Banker zero and a tie. Infreakinincredible. He is paid a nice stack of greenies and colors in.

I can't continue at empty table. They will not deal unless somebody makes a bet. So I leave down 8 units wondering what the odds are of two runs of 6 showing up back to back. Statistically a run of 6 will only occur once every two shoes. LOL, except if i'm playing. I can't ever recall it happening but apparently Lady Luck is angry at me this day.

However, by not chasing it as i used to i lost, but didn't loss my butt and hopefully can grind my way back.

I will try this again as I feel it is a good idea, but time will tell.

Welcome to my world

Bobby

Bobby -

I wish I had time to sit around and play with various strategies like I did when I was younger. Something weird happened when I turned sixty. I think it was the spontaneous dissolution of my cerebreal cortex. I have a servere case of CRS - can't remember squat - and apparently have lost all ability to work out complex math (something that I wasn't too good at to begin with). But mostly I'm just too tired by the time the old work day is done to even spend any time working through various betting strategies. My apologies to everyone about this. I think it's that Old Timers disease setting in. Wish my brain had a functioning way-back machine but apparently it does not.

Thanks for understanding. Meanwhile, any of you guys who still have full control of your faculties are more than welcome to take a shot at BB's Zumma question.

Yeah, turning 60 was the first birthday I regretted as well. Welcome to my world.

So, I read another book and this guy has the "rule of 3" It is the exact opposite of what i'm doing. He says if you see three in a row, bet the run. If u see ppp bet p, ugh, what to do. With the rule of three u are only losing one unit on a loss as opposed to me using a 3 step progression and losing 7 units. I've reviewed some old score cards and of course it's a flip of the coin, anything can and will happen.

Might just need to wait for any empty craps table.

Bobby

That's interesting because I've used the "rule of three" in many aspects of my life through the years - not just in the casino. As you described it the rule of three is simply a follow the trend strategy. I tend to agree with that approach. Frank Barstow, in his Beat the Casino book, said he liked to bet the decision before the last decision, which should help you follow the trend while avoiding some of the whipsaw stuff you experience in a choppy game. If the decisions looked like this: B P then you'd bet Bank. If they were B B then you'd bet bank. If they were P B you'd bet P. If the series went B P P P P B P B B you'd begin your betting after the first P and you'd bet B. You'd lose that first bet. Then you'd be on P P P lost the B lose the P. I think I got that right.

Back to that rule of three thing - it's used all the time in literature, movies, etc. You start out with a person (the protagonist) in a place with a problem. He tries to solve the problem and makes matters worse. He tries a second time and things become worse still. He tries the third time and he either solves his problem or dies trying. In the course of all of this he learns a valuable lesson. Think about the fairy tails you've read. Three Little Pigs. Goldilocks and the Three Beats. Any Frank Scoblete trip report . . .