Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Yo Fellow, Kindred Earthbounds.....

I have modified Hank's System.

How to fix it came to me in a dream ....

" Why are you lay-betting the 4 or 10 ' NOT to repeat ' when you know the shooter
has a history of throwing a ' just thrown ' 4 or 10 ? "

In Zumma back-testing I now lay-bet the shooters ' not thrown ' 4 or 10. If, within his roll,

he rolls a 4 ...I now lay-bet the opposite book-end number ....the 10.

WARNING :

By doing so, not only on Hank's System, but shelving my 4/10 system and betting for a $50.00 bill

when the 4 or 10 sets-up, as the point............ works really well !

If say.... a four is the point I make a +$100.00 lay bet on the ten and use a double-up neg.

progression if the four repeats.

With my original 4/10 Lay Betting Neg. Progression System, my recovery bets were to high. The

risk-reward was not worth it..... I was hit for a - $1,200.00 loss on one bet on the Nov. Laughlin

junket trip.......that really sucked !

So.... now by playing for the nice-looking $50.00 bills ....my reduced risk-rewards level allows alot

more room to recover my losses and it still generates around +$ 500.00 to +$800.00 an hour.

HANK'S SYSTEM :
==========

" I was in Vegas and I saw an old guy working the Strip Craps Tables. He was looking for cold tables.
He would wait for a point to be established.
My table was starting to turn cold and here he comes..................
He waited for the point to be est. then he waited a few
rolls to see if a 4 or 10 was thrown. If the point was a 4 or 10 he would not bet on the shooter.
For example, a 9 was the point.....3 or 4 rolls later a ten was thrown. He told the dealer.... ' $41.00 no 10.'
A few rolls later a 7 was thrown and he collected his winnings and he moved on.
The dealer told me he does this day after day, from Casino to Casino. He only stays at a table for one shooter's
outcome. "
========================================================

That is Hank's System. I do not know where he got his information from ? Betting on the opposite 4

or 10, from the 4 or 10 point.... was legs !

I will lay-out my just back-tested Zumma page #50 using this new way of playing when I get back

from getting my, just sharpened, 5 dog grooming blades for the groomer @ Lemoore Navel Air Station.

I will do a trip report for the Nov. junket trip......it started out good but it crashed !

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
PS: Iron Cross thank you for your support of Rapid Eye Technology. I like it because, unlike $$$, I get to
take what I learn using it with me when I go home ( upstairs).

Neural DP bet = .... -$10.00. On the ' 6 ' C/O point we have a $15.00 Neural bet
in the DP box = .... +$15.00.
====================================================
#1,013 = ....... [4*]937. * We lay-bet the opposite of the C/O 4 ( the 10 ) for $200.00
& thus win ... +$100.00 when the play's outcome is ...4937. We win our pre-C/O ,
Neural DP box bet of ....$10.00.
====================================================
#1,014 = ........ 2 - 9117. We win our pre-C/O DP box bet on the rolled ' 2' of $10.00.
We also win our $10.00 Pre C/O DP Neural bet when the shooters final play is... 9117.
=====================================================
#1,015 = ........ 7 - 7 - 4510106124 - 67. The back-tested rule of when a starting
shooter rolls two (2) PL winners, back-to-back on his opening hands.. his shooting
is called ' off ' for use on the Hank's System.
However, the Neural System is in play :
It goes = ...(7 = -$10.00 ) .... ( 7 = -$15.00 ...( 4510106124 = -$25.00)...(67 =
+$40.00 ).
If the.... 4510106124...hand was played, it would have been a - $200.00 loss
betting the opposite of the C/O point ( betting on the ten ). However, using 100's of
back-tested previous-shooter-rolls, whenever the next 4 or 10 C/O point came
up or when the next 4 or 10 manifested between play outcomes.... the loss
is easy to recover from.

Why is that you ask ?
I'm glad you asked.....
It is the 66.66% DP player-bias that a seven will come up before a 4 or 10 again manifests.
it is the key !

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7

Yo......

Wow ! this Apple Computer has eaten shooters #1,001 through shooter's #1,012 of Zumma's page # 67's

rolls !

It is history !

WB

Yo...Fellow ' Non-Powerball Winners '

Lotto's have to have the worst odds of any game !

For years I was out-of-my-mind and ran a lotto pool for the USDA and

several Gov. offices. We did not win.

I guess we were just buying...... ' dreams ? '

Back testing Ol' Hank's DP Craps System is going well. I am up to page 95 in

Zumma's Craps System Testing Book.

Unlike Hank, I am betting on the C/O 4's and 10's.....but....betting the opposite 4 or

10.....from the point.

Due to the DP 66.66% player bias, that I will win BEFORE the 4 or 10 repeats, this

seems way to easy to win. Of course, only making a 50%

return on my bets.....does require a progression.

I am ready to head South to the card craps tables in San Diego. First stop.... Pechanga

Casino in Temecula,Ca.

It is the largest Casino in Ca. it has a 200,000 square foot gaming floor.

Next stop will be 12 miles South of Temecula at the Paula Indian Casino located

off the freeway 15. It is an awesome place. It could pass as a French Casino in

France.

After my one hour max. limit on playing card craps an any one Indian Casino,

I will drop down, on the Paula Valley road, for 17 miles to the Harraha's Ricon

Indian Casino.

I do not think I am going any further South in San Diego County.....even though

there are several craps tables South of DT San Diego ....off the Freeway 8.

My brother lives just South of the Ricon Indian Casino in Escondito, Ca. In fact,

the Tribal Indian Chief lives right across the street from my brother.

Harraha's Ricon runs a huge fleet of buses, daily, all over the LA Basin.

They roll all the way up to Northridge, Ca.

Well, off to the gym and an H2o pool class......

WB

Yo...Carbon-Based 25 Watt Electrical-Generating Units.....

The Alaska storm is about to ' doom ' any yard work here.

I had ALL my betting triggers ready to post when this computer ate it.

I am gun-shy on posting long posts.

Therefore, I will post a little at a time. Back-testing Zumma through page

#95 was interesting.

Page #95 is not a long page but it shows how Hank's System fails....over and over.....

then how the ' seven-bias ' overcomes those loses.

================================
ZUMMA PAGE # 95 :

Shooter # :
1,421 = ......57.
1,422 = ...... 3 - 1025938910 - 655897.
1,423 = ...... 6227.
1,424 = ......910647.
1,425 = ......6937.
1,426 = 4111069127.
1,427 = ......57.
1,428 = ......867.
1,429 = ......12 - 6108486 - 67.
1,430 = ......12 - 867.
1,431 = ......10687.
1,432 = ......861010453648 - 1067.
1,433 = ......619857.
1,434 = ...... 57.
1,435 = ......44 - 981010355667.
========================
Plays using Ol' Hank's 4/10 System &
Silverthorne's Neural System on Zumma's
page #95.......................

#1,421...........57.

Pre-C/O, we load +$15.00 in DP box = a +$15.00 Neural net-win.
====================================================
#1,422..........3-1025938910-655897.

We load ( Pre-C/O ) +$15.00 in DP box = 3 = +$15.00 net win.
We again load ( Pre-C/O ) +$15.00 in Dp box = [10*]25938910.
* After the ten manifests, as the point, we lay-bet +$200 exactly opposite
the ten... the four.......we let it ride to an outcome.
The shooter's next C/O point is the 6. He throws ...655897*.
We win $100.00 our... ' no 4 '... lay-bet when the *7 shows.
We also win the $15.00 DP box bet.
===================================================
#1,423...........6227.

We load $15.00 (Pre-C/O ) in the DP box. The shooter rolls....6227.
We win +$15.00 on our DP box bet.
====================================================
#1,424...........910647.

Pre-C/O we put $15.00 ( Neural play ) in the DP box. The shooter rolls a ' 10 ' on
his second roll, We lay-bet opposite the 10 @ +$200.00 ... ' no 4 ' ... We lose the
bet when the 4 is rolled.... 9106 [4 ] 7 ... = -$200.00.
We win the Neural $15.00 DP box bet.
====================================================
#1,425..........6937.

We are in lost-loot recovery mode. We again (Pre-C/O ) put $15.00 in the
DP box. At the same time, we lay-bet the 4 & 10... each for +$200.00.
The shooter rolls a C/O point of six. We let our bets ride to an outcome = +$200 net
off our 4 & 10 lay bets & +$15.00 off our Neural (Neg. Progression ) DP box bet.
====================================================
Shooter # 1,425's loss... cookie-cutter repeats three more times before reaching
the end of the page @ shooter # 1,435.
The recovery bet always follows loss....the next play and the lost-loot does recover !

hummmmmmmm !?
===============================
Stats :
Zumma Page # 95.
Rolls = 93.
Time = 49 Minutes of play time.
Net profit using Hank's modified 4/10 DP System
& Silverthorne's Neural System = $615.00 net profit.
================================

Not bad for just 49 minutes of play-time ...sweet !

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7

Well, you know I am not fond of negative progressions. Same goes for large lay bets. I'd much rather have a $200 DP on the four or ten than a $400 lay bet on the four or ten. With that said, I would be interested to see how the strategy works in live play. Give us a report when you get off of the computer and into the casino.

Yo Heavy, All.....

On my last trip to Harraha's South Lake Tahoe I used this betting system for the
first time.

I was awed how well it transfers from the Vegas DT Golden Nugget & Four Queens

( Zumma's 35,000 rolls ) rolls ...to real play. I was playing in the wee hours so I

could have the table to myself ....thus.... start and stop play, for charting, at my will.

I took my +$800.00 buy in to over +$2,400.00 before packing-it-in @ around

6:00 AM.

I tipped the tip-starved kid crew +20.00 every time my lay-bets hit. They made

+$200.00 and seemed thrilled.

The older boxman must have rated me ' good ' because Harraha's lifted my March 2012

to Sept. 2012 junket ban.

Ok-Ok....truth... I followed MP's advice and ratted four-figure loot.

Boy....Life is good !

Wolfbyte........

My last trip to S/B there was a guy next to me playing a similar system. The difference was that he would doey-dont come bets to get the four and ten. It dawned on me after I got home that he was avoiding the juice to lay these bets. When the doey-dont went to an inside number, he did nothing with them. He was laying a bunch. Only had one bad stretch while I was there.
Here is a c & p of that observation:
He was playing a doey-don't for $5, $10, $15 and $25. For no discernible reason as to which he would play. What is strange here he never took odds or layed odds on those results. He did this for several hours. He only layed odds when the four or the ten was the point. I honestly do not know what those other bets were for or about. This was a 100 times odds table, so he layed heavy odds on that four or ten but never both. This helicopter shooter cleaned his clock. He must have dropped $4-5 grand chasing here. Once he had $3000 layed on the four. About 6-8 rolls later he reduced them to two grand, then reduced them again several rolls later, then lost this bet. Didn't seem to bother him as here he came again with the same way. About as weird as I have ever seen. After this shooter, then he was STILL playing that odd doey don''t and if a four did not show after maybe 8-10 rolls, he would then just lay the four for a grand, sometimes the ten, and after each additional roll increase his lay by $200 and build it up.
As mentioned, best I could figure, he was just wanting to doey-don't the four or ten and the bet sizes were to be able to lay heavier odds. I have no idea why he messed with the doey-don't except for the action. Made absolutely no sense to me unless he could only lay the heavy odds when he had a don't bet. Maybe there was a limit to a straight lay bet and he wanted more action.

Shootitall.........

That could be it..... he just wanted action ?

I could do the same thing but Hanrraha's will not rate you if you

100% hedge or doey-don't. I use close to the table min. Neural

neg. progression as my ' freeway ' to the DP 4's and 10's.

I finished running Hank's System through page 125 a few min. ago.

I can NOT believe how much better the play-outcomes are by lay-betting

the ' opposite ' 4 or 10 from the 4 or 10 point number !

And it is a simple concept..... based on what the shooter JUST did ( throwing

a 4 or 10 ) go OPPOSITE his 4 or 10....... thrown number.

Hummmm !?

On the Nov. junket trip to Laughlin, I was at the table, by myself, as planned,

and the ten came up ....as my point. I lay-bet $500.00 .....' no 10. '

The next roll was the ' 4. ' So, based on my back-testing... at home, I lay-bet

it also for $500.00.

As another, current thread, went over...... I could ' NOT ' bring back the seven to

save my life !

I set the 4-3 top and even used the open-split V-2 shot = NO 7 !

In my back testing, I have found it is best to take-down all lay-bets if the

seven does not show within six ( 6 ) rolls. I had rolled over my limit.... I rolled 9 rolls

before I told the crew ......" take down my lay-bets ...please. "

Yep.....you know it ! ..... my very next roll was the 6-1 !

I was pissed !

The stick gal said ..... " Well, you were the one who took them down ? "

I told her math-wise nine rolls were too many rolls for a seven to ... ' NOT '... show.

The boxman agreed.

So...there I was..... off the the buffet breakfast, overlooking the Colorado River, feeling

I had just taken a large risk for ' ZERO ' rewards.

I played it as my back-testing said to play it.

Wolfbyte.............

WOLFBYTE wrote:I played it as my back-testing said to play it.

Which to me says you played it right. You should feel confident that you'll win more than you'll lose, and stick to your plan. Rather than think about taking them down just before a 7, think about the fact you left them up until roll 9. What would your thoughts be if you hit a 4 or 10 on that 7th roll? "Damn. If I'd just taken them down when I was supposed to..."

Always consider the long term.

Always consider the long term.

Something waaaaaayyyy too many of us forget. If you play regularly then you are a long run player. You're going to run through a few pot holes from time to time, but keep it between the ditches and over the journey you'll stay on top.

Yo, Kindred, 25-Watt Earthbound Units........

It has finally stopped raining on the West Coast !

I am going to take Hank's System

to Harraha's South Lake Tahoe and Reno... this Month.

Off to the gym shortly.....................

I completed Hank's Zumma back-testing through the 140th page this early AM.

I like posting because it helps me stay on the straight and narrow in my testing.

In fact, this morning I backed-up and forgo three Hank's wins do to stepping over

my self-imposed start-stop betting triggers. It was NOT intentional. I was just steaming

along.....way to fast ......with my the red, yellow and grey pencils.

UPDATE :
======================================================

Hank trolls from Casino to Casino looking for cold tables. I have found that if I

' STOP betting ' on a shooter that throws two back-to-back PL

opening, shooter wins creates DP betting lanes ....just like strolling for cold

tables.

EXAMPLE :

I just opened the Zumma book, at random, to shooter # 1,636's rolls :

He threw :

11 - 9689 - 44 -938451010669 - 11 - 7 - 12 - 657.

We stop using Hank's System after the 11 and 9689 outcomes. We make $$$

off the Neural System because we have been back-scoring each of the last five outcomes

to tell us what side to bet the Neural progression on..... DP or PL.

This gives off an ..... up-to-the-minute table... bias/trend.

Anyway , using Hank's & Silverthorne's Neural System below are the

Zumma page-by-page outcome/results from page #125 through page #140.

#126.........+$1,240.00 = 8 Hank plays.
#127.........+$580.00... = 2 Hank plays.
#128........ +$1,020.00 = 6 Hank plays.
#129.........+$590.00 ...= 4 Hank plays.
#130.........+$755.00 ...= 2 Hank plays.
#131.........+$975.00... = 2 Hank plays.
#132.........+$745.00 ...= 3 Hank plays.
#133........ +$1,095.00 = 6 Hank plays.
#134 ...... +$990.00....= 5 Hank plays.
#135.........+$225.00 ....= 0 Hank plays.
#136........ +$445.00....= 0 Hank Plays.
#137.........+$1,130.00 = 10 Hank plays.
#138.........+$955.00....= 7 Hank plays.
#139..........+ $990.00..= 2 Hank plays.
#140.........+ $650.00 ... = 4 Hank plays

Page # 140 @ + $650.00 (net) was good.
There were only 72 rolls thrown in that 39 minute session !

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte........
aka: W7....
short for :
White-Winter, Whiskey-Wolf, Wanta-be, Wombat, Wizard.

WOLFBYTE wrote:Thoughts ?

This is often difficult (for me) to do because even though I know OF Silverthorne's strategy, I don't actually know how it works. And there aren't too many posts where you don't mention how the Neural system stepped in to cover while you waited for your other system to kick back in.

When used/applied correctly, I do believe there are systems that work. But not all the time. So the idea that 3 or 4 systems, working in concert, can keep you constantly in the game, and working towards a positive position. But before I will agree/disagree/whatever, I want to sit down and test, and see that my testing match your results, and then take it to a casino. Maybe not even to play live, but track a live table on paper, and see the results.

I don't doubt you, W7, I just don't really have any more info than you saying that it works.

It also doesn't help that if I go looking for the Neural system, Silverthorne's web site looks like a thousand other quick get-rich sites out there. I'm sure this will contribute to my never spending the $79.97 to purchase the info.

Sharkbyte, All.........

I do not use a pure Silvethorne Neural System. I have altered it to be more forgiving and therefore step-over

go against-the-player strings of outcomes when using it.

I will post the altered ( FCStoHCS ) ....." Freeway Craps System to Hanks Craps System " .....next.

WB.......

Yo............

This Apple Computer just ate my long post.....again !

Anyway.....I now will condense into a short post the high

winning ( $$$$-wise ) Zumma pages since leaving-off

at page #140 :

Page #'s :

#144......+$1,755.00 ***
#147......+$1,820.00 *****
#148......+$1,620.00 **
#151......+$1,850.00 *****
#156......+$1,435.00
#161......+$1,880.00 *****
#162......+$1.815.00 *****
#163......+$1,450.00
#165......+$1,645.00 **
#168......+$1,580.00 **
#169......+$1,740.00 ***
#171......+$2,970.00
#172......+$1,450.00
#173......+$1,410.00
#176......+$2,000.00 *****
#177......+$1,495.00
#179......+$1,570.00 **
#181......+$1,790.00 ***
#185......+$2,050.00 *****
#188......+$1,500.00 **
#189......+$2,195.00 *****
#190......+$1,855.00 *****
#194......+$1,960.00 ***
#195......+$1,910.00 ***
#196......+$2,890.00
#197......+$1,650.00 **
#200......+$2,115.00

The lowest pages were :

#149.....+$725.00
#150.....+$585.00
#154......+$610.00
#159......+$590.00
#167......+$465.00

I made a mistake in my last post. I did NOT split-out Hank's plays

from the straight-up 4/10 plays......Opps !

As one poster said this AM.... " I see it all the time at the craps tables.....a shooter
learns a new way to play.....and as soon as he hits the craps tables....he reverts to
his old ways of playing. "

How true ! That is why I back-test the hell out of rolls.

Maybe it is best to do what Lyle Srewart said in his books :

" Get rich in the dark. "

Thoughts?

Wolfbyte
aka: W7

The Neural is basically a multi-step Fibonacci play. I suspect most of it has been layed out in bits and pieces here on the board over the last couple of years. You might be able to dig it out. I know at one time I asked WB to post his progressions with the Neural and he did so. I'll did around a little this weekend and see if I can find it. Or perhaps WB will refresh our memories.

Yo.......Kindred, Earthbound Units..........

FREEWAY CRAPS:
===========
( A Transport-Craps-System to move to the ' meat ' in the 4/10, Hank's
System, 3+Capping Craps System or Press & Regress 2-Step Craps System. )

Summery of Betting-Steps in Freeway Neg. Progression Games :
========================================
Progression Steps = $1.00 Game = 1,2,3,5,8,13,21,35.
Progression Steps = $2.00 Game = 2,3,5,8,13,21,35,50.
Progression Steps = $5.00 Game = 5,8,13,21,35,50,75,100.
Progression Steps = $10.00 Game = 10,15,25,40,65,105,150,200.
Progression Steps = $15.00 Game = 15,25,40,65,105,150,225,300.
Progression Steps = $25.00 Game = 25,40,65,105,150,225,325,500.
Progression Steps = $50.00 Game = 50,80,130,210,325,525,825,1,000.
Progression Steps = $75.00 Game = 75,125,200,325,525,825,1,000,1,500.
Progression Steps = $100.00 Game = 100,160,260,325,525,825,1,200,2,000.


A completed game is 20 base-betting units on any line. ( $5.00 Game 20 Units = +$100.00 )
Lose the 7th Step-bet, on any line, go to ' recovery game.' A recovery game is at least
a double-up game of the line I are working on = $5.00 game loss ...go to at least the $10.00
game for ' ONE RECOVERY GAME ' ..... only.
I like to recover my losses using a 3X or 5 X game. As soon as my losses are recovered, at ANY
stage in the recovery game....I revert to my base, original-betting-game that I lost on the 7th progression
step.
EXAMPLE :

$2.00 Game losses = -2, -3, -5,-8, -13, -21, -35 = Lost Game = Go to 3X Recovery game @ $5.00....
$5.00 Game losses = -5, -8, -13, -21, -35, -50, -75 = Lost Game = Go to 3X Recovery game @ $15.00.
Lose the $15.00 game, through the 7th step = Lost Game.....................
Go to 3X Recovery Game @ the $50.00 game...................

Betting rules next.......................

WB

Yo......Good Day Kindred Earthbound-Electrical Power-Generating Orbs.....

I have been reading the effects of using coconut oil and coconut water

in my diet. Mega books on this subject @ Amazon.

My favorite Amazon Coconut books are :

" THE COCONUT OIL MIRACLE "
" COCONUT CURES: PREVENTING & TREATING COMMON HEALTH PROBLEMS WITH
COCONUT "
" THE EVERYTHING COCONUT DIET COOKBOOK: THE DELICIOUS & NATURAL
WAY TO LOSE WEIGHT FAST, BOOST ENERGY, INPROVE DIJESTION, REDUCE
INFLAMMATION & GET HEALTHY FOR LIFE "

The .99 Cent Store sells a really good 17 oz. can of coconut water under the
"Parrot " brand.

Wow ! most coconut products are from SE Asia and the people there DO NOT

have heart problems, diabetes, strokes, Alzheimer's and other animal and veg.

fat produced Western medical problems.

I can see my arth. in my spine vaporizing since I use a gallon of coconut

oil for cooking and sipping Coconut water, all day long.

When the SE Asian's give up coconut products by moving to the

Western Anglo Nations....they too get the above medical conditions.

The book I am reading right now is : " The Coconut Oil Miracle " by Bruce Fife.

Go to Amazon and you can read the dozens of book reviews on how coconut

affects health.

My Mother died of Alzheimer's and my Father died of a stroke....nasty,nasty stuff !

ANYWAY.........................................................................

I am using a pre- ' Freeway Craps System ' betting trigger that is throwing-off

a nice .. ' player-bias ' by extending the neg. progression... by two steps. I have used

it in my Zumma back-testings for the last 40-50 pages.

Most craps decisions reverse from DP to PL or PL to DP outcomes within two

back-to-back plays. As I type this I am looking down at Zumma page # 211. I

will line-by-line show how cool this works by posting that page.

BASIC BETTING RULES :
==============

A......Begin with the lowest betting level wager in the betting line you are using
from the above progression table.
B......When a wager loses, the next wager is raised one level. So... if we lose the $2.00
bet, the next wager is +$3.00.
C......When a bet wins we drop one progression betting level except when we have
won two bets in a row or won two out of the las three bets.
D...... When two consecutive wagers are won, or if the last two bets out of the last
three bets are winners, the next bet is two progression steps lower.

If I lose three back-to-back bets.... I WILL STOP betting & use a doey-don't until
a winning bet ...passes by.... without a $$ bet before I continue the progression
with one more up-step bet.

If I lose that bet, I WILL STOP betting and wait for a non-betted win to pass
by without action before resuming the progression for one more bet.
That way, the trigger kills-off strings of one reversed outcome when it continues
the same-way with outcomes after that one-reversed-win as found in the original
string of wins.

EXAMPLE :

Wins are... PL,PL,PL,PL,PL,PL,PL,...DP....PL,PL,PL,PL,PL,PL. The ' stop bet ' trigger
stops the go-against-the-player outcomes in the second string of PL wins.

I am frying Y. Gold potatoes in Coconut Oil right now..... later.

WB

I've been a lay better my entire life.

Using $30 Incriments always laying the 4/10. Interesting that no one has mentioned laying during the come out. Most choppy tables are choppy IMHO because of a string of come out 7s. I sometimes will shift with each shooter from laying the 4/10 to 5/9.

The secret is to try and find a house that collects the vig on the back end of the bet. That cuts down on loses tremendously. Another secret: Never Martingale on the same shooter. It is not uncommon for one shooter to be hot, it is uncommon to have consecutive shooters be hot. So if I hear the dreaded "Down Behind" I will usually wait until the next shooter to bring back the bet. It is a very slow system that you must have patience for. In my 20+ years of playing, I have never had 5 different shooters knock down my lay bets, yet I have had the same shooter knock down my lay bet 5 or 6 times.

I honestly believe the 4/10 Lay is the best bet on the table.

Arrgy,

I agree with you on all your points. The 4/10 Lay bet with its 66.66% player-win-bias is

the best bet on the table.

However, a workable bet-progression is needed to overcome the 50% pay-off, on a win.

I just cracked 250 pages of Zumma back-testing the 4/10 Lay-System, Hank's 4/10, between C/O

roll and outcome, Lay-System & The Freeway Craps System. These 3 systems are spinning off over

4-figure $$$$ per hour.....sweet !

After having blood drawn at the Hospital today, I re-ran the first 3,000 Zumma rolls to see what

actually happens right after a 4/10 lay-bet system failure when the next 4 or 10 C/O pt. is set.

The 3,000 targeted-rolls, after a loss really pointed out your point Aggry..... You MUST step-over

a shooter who you just lost a 4/10 lay bet on due to his hot throwing of 4's or 10's.

I will post Zumma pages #200 through #250 (back-tested results) when I get back from the Hospital today.

I have to be at the Hospital at 7AM and it is 40 miles away..............

Wolfbyte.