Surviving a choppy table

[djj711]

I play craps about 1-2 times a month in either AC or Philly, usually 5X odds. I have played both sides of the dice with pretty much the same results. My question is this:

I typically will just stay at a table, i don't like moving around too much. Having said that, I am looking for some guidance in how to protect my bankroll while the table is choppy, which seems to be the case much of the time. I have used various hedging strategies over the years, again with mixed results. I do not like just laying against a number or laying too many odds on the Don't side. i also like to have a few numbers working at any given time. i usually have enough bankroll for 20 - 30 shooters during the session. my goal is to try and ride out the choppy part, but be ready to take advantage when the table gets warm. i do not like having a lot of Don't bets on the table because there are too many targets out there. any help would be appreciated.

djj711

[heavy]

Well, I should be an expert on this one, but the guy who does it better than anyone I know is Shootitall. Patience is the key. Single bets or cross hedging is the key. Shootitall's One Hit - Can't Miss play is a good one. Bet a $12 Don't Pass - then once the point is established place the six and eight for $12 each (even if one of them is the point). You need one hit on the six or eight to put you in a profit position. Maximum exposure - $12 per shooter until you get that first hit. With a $250 loss limit that'll get you through 20 consecutive losers.

The other play is to bet the DP and DC, then placing each number after it travels. Example - $6 DC bet travels to the five. Now place it for $5. You can't lose. Whether the five rolls or not - you're going to win $1. I know, you're going to say $1 is not enough. Just add as many zeros as you are comfortable with on those numbers. $60 DC travels - place it for $50 - guarantees a $10 win. The only real exposure is getting past the initial roll to establish the DC.

Search for the Transition Moves article here on the site for more information on following the trend when a table heats up.

[SHOOTITALL]

Here is another play you might want to think about.
If you are clocking the shooters and know pretty much what they throw.
After the CO, place a doey-dont. Bet travels. IF it is an outside number, lay single odds. IF it is a six or eight, forget it.
Keep placing doey-donts to get three working numbers with bets.
Another version is to not place odds until you have three working numbers, excluding the six and eight.
Another version is when you have the six or eight, take the odds there. If you have both of them, good luck. The beauty here is you can transition to either side. If the hand heats up, just move the dont odds to the do.

[djj711]

thank you for the info. i am going to look up the transition moves article. if you are hedging, or maybe doing a DP with a place bet on the 6 & 8 as Heavy suggested, how many times would you allow a shooter to knock you off a number? if i'm on the DP and the shooter makes two passes, i would probably start to increase the place bets and stay away from the Don'ts.

i appreciate the feedback.

dj

[RTUIKEN]

I like what heavy said.....6 on the dc and after it travels, place it for 5 ( or how many Zeros you want ) If it travels, you cant loose. You can however get your DC picked off before it travels. Nothing is perfect! So, You either use a mini marti.......or just keep betting flat.....or start laying! I prefer laying! Pretty simple really! Pick one and have some fun.

Just My Opinion

Ken

[heavy]

. . . how many times would you allow a shooter to knock you off a number? if i'm on the DP and the shooter makes two passes, i would probably start to increase the place bets and stay away from the Don'ts.

If you are playing by Grafstein's rules and really grinding it out - you allow yourself one loss per player. If he knocks you off of one bet you are through until the next shooter. If you have not already done so, find yourself a copy of The Dice Doctor by Sam Grafstein and read it. I tend to be more aggressive than that. I'll make continuous DC bets with odds, but if I get knocked off of two of them I stop betting for that shooter. If I get knocked off three bets I remove the lay odds and wait for a decision. Like I said - pretty aggressive. Like anything in this game - when it works it is a beautiful thing. When it doesn't - it's butt ugly.

[Golfer]

Irish, that is where the word "TUMA" had its origins. I would be grinding along and then a shooter would get hot, take me out on 1,2 or 3 bets and I would stand there with the thumb properly placed for discipline and rolls to seemingly infinity would happen. Of course I couldn't stand it many a time and would put out some bets and then Whack..........7 out. Now to avoid overworking the thumb I will start with a couple of come bets and see what happens.

Transitioning............like marriage is tough.

Later

[wudged]

You still take action on 6/8 and place it for 6 to either win $1 or break even.

[falcon]

I play craps about 1-2 times a month in either AC or Philly, usually 5X odds. I have played both sides of the dice with pretty much the same results. My question is this:

I typically will just stay at a table, i don't like moving around too much. Having said that, I am looking for some guidance in how to protect my bankroll while the table is choppy, which seems to be the case much of the time. I have used various hedging strategies over the years, again with mixed results. I do not like just laying against a number or laying too many odds on the Don't side. i also like to have a few numbers working at any given time. i usually have enough bankroll for 20 - 30 shooters during the session. my goal is to try and ride out the choppy part, but be ready to take advantage when the table gets warm. i do not like having a lot of Don't bets on the table because there are too many targets out there. any help would be appreciated.

djj711

djj711: Let me see if I can make this really simple with some reasonable risk.

Start out with the Doey/Don't (PL/DPL) bets for the table minimum. The reason is that you are not going to get rich on those bets anyway.

The house's advantage on point conversions lie with the 4,5,9, & 10. So if you play just those points (patience and discipline required here), you place Don't/Odds for $18 and Place the 6 & 8 for $12 each. Worst case scenarios are a point conversion with a net loss of $18 or a 7 out with a net loss of $12. Both such losses are easily recoverable, however, one hit and a 7 out gives you a net win of $12; a hit and conversion nets a $4 loss; otherwise you can go on from there. If your bank roll can stand a little more risk, you can bet Don't/O of $36 and Place the 6, 8, & 9 (the point is 5) for $34 with a hop of $1 each for the easy 4/10 and $1 crap check. One thing is that if the hands have been short with predominant 7 outs, playing just the Don't/O for just $12-$18 should provide several small wins until that elusive "good" shooter arrives.

Remember there are only two numbers that will show just one time during any given point -- the point itself or the 7. Putting the 7 on your side is just mathematically sound.

falcon