Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Hey all,

I am somewhat new to craps. I got hooked on it when I was watching at Fallsview while waiting for the poker tables to thin out... I got to talking to a table crew and one offered to show me how to play ( how nice of him) and I hit a great run with 3 really good shooters. 8 hrs later I was up 6500. That was 5 yrs ago. I stopped going to the casino until just a few weeks ago.
I started going again and while waiting for the poker tables at Rama I started watching craps.

That is the lead up to my question.

I am not a controlled thrower in no means but I do set hardways and use a 3 finger (and thumb) grip throwing softly to 1 bounce it to the back wall.

I am a conservative bettor. I like to bet with CM (casino's money) so I bet pass line with a hedged any craps bet on the comeout.
with point made I do a 1 unit inside bet ($17 or $22 on a $5 table)
I take the money from the first 3 box hits making my place bets CM then I press in a unit progression like : 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 12, 20, 30, 50, 80, 120, 200, .....

I know this is a very basic way to bet but when I talk about poker I take advantage of posting hands to hear what the long time players say about them so I am doing the same here.

While I do get hit with the PSO I have also backed into a few nice runs. the last 2 times out I left up $600 and $3900.
I have good money management skills as I have a set loss of only $300 even though I buy in with $500 and I have yet to come close to losing the $300 yet.

Look forward to hearing your input,

Inspector

I appreciate you describing your play at Rama. Why don't you stick to your play when you won 6500 in 8 hours at fallsview. It would be nice for everyone here, if you can now describe your play at Fallsview. Thnx.

Well, it was 6 years ago and I had never played before. I had only watched for 10 mins here and there as the tables were right beside the pokerroom.
as I recall the crew was reminding me to put max odds on the passline and 3 units across the box numbers pressing heavy any hits untill I was over $100 i=on each #
then they started handing me chips.

I told my story only to show that I was lucky a few times but now I want to play smart.

BTW the reason I stopped playing at fallsview is I met a little lady and eventually got married so I found I had less time and even less money to play poker or learn craps. It is only recently that I found myself with time to invest in poker and learning craps so here I am.

First off, welcome to the forum - and thanks for jumping in with both feet and a good description of what you're up to. Let me do a cut and paste here and toss out a few observations:

I am not a controlled thrower in no means but I do set hardways and use a 3 finger (and thumb) grip throwing softly to 1 bounce it to the back wall.

Let's add one thing to this mix. Keep doing what you are doing, but focus on technique and landing zone. Regardless of how you toss the dice - toss them the same way every time - to the same spot on the table every time - as long as you are getting favorable results. If you don't like the results - try tossing to a different spot on the table. Just keep adjusting until you find the results you like - then stick with that toss. It does not have to be a cookie-cutter toss like we teach in the seminars - it just has to be comfortable and consistent and yield good results.

I am a conservative bettor. I like to bet with CM (casino's money) so I bet pass line with a hedged any craps bet on the comeout.
with point made I do a 1 unit inside bet ($17 or $22 on a $5 table) - I take the money from the first 3 box hits making my place bets CM then I press in a unit progression like : 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 12, 20, 30, 50, 80, 120, 200, .....

One of the most difficult things to do, IMHO, is walk away with a significant win when starting out with table minimum bets. it simply takes you too long to overcome a couple of early seven outs. So I would consider adding a regression to your play. For example, if you insist on playing a pass line bet with odds then you'd place the inside numbers whichever ones are not the point) for three to five units. In a $5 game let's assume the six is the point. Instead of betting $16 inside - bet $48 inside. The first his will pay you $21 and you can regress to $16 inside, locking up a $5 profit on the place action. Now your only exposure (since it's a $5 game and you have a $5 line bet) is the free odds wager, which the house has no edge on. Make sense? BTW, I would not waste 20% of my action ($1 as opposed to a $5 PL bet) on an any craps hedge. It's just too expensive over the long run.

The progression you are running starts out as a Fibonacci, but you slow it down after eight units. A true Fibo is 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, etc. Your next bet is always the sum of the two previous bets. Played in the traditional manner, it's a negative progression. You advance to the next step on each loss. On a win you re-bet at the same level you were at on the win for one hand. You're looking for two consecutive wins - then you regress back to a single unit and run the (negative) progression again. It's a slow grind, seen in play at craps most often on the dark side. It sounds like you are running a positive progression, which is smart. It also sounds like it is working quite well for you.

I have good money management skills as I have a set loss of only $300 even though I buy in with $500 and I have yet to come close to losing the $300 yet.

I suspect you've had a nice run of luck. I can tell you there are some very good shooters who play at Rama, including several of our Board Members. If you are serious about making craps work for you, then odds are you'll end up getting to know some of these guys. This could be fun.

Any other observations, guys?

Thanks for the input heavy,

I didn't realize what the pattern was, I was mainly looking in the beginning to press the bets by 1/2 of my winnings rounded up to the next bet so to take winnings on each roll other than the first press.
I thought about using a higher bet upfront like you suggest but at the time I was worried about the extra money out in the beginning exposed to the seven early in the throw. That is why I same bet for each point till my initial wager is covered.
I was taught to max the passline odds but this new time around I have been trying to reduce my risk so I don't use odds until the shooter makes their point and sets a new point then depending on their throws in between I take odds.

I have been working on the force of my throw and I know it will take a long time to be able to consistantly repeat it.

I have met quite a few characters at the tables. There is a guy who with his pencil and paper does a lot of writing (charting) while betting don't 90% of the time... then a shooter get hot, he switches to Do and growls when the shooter sevens out.

A lot of the folks I see at the table are retirees as I play during the day leaving in time to get home for dinner.
I chose the handle I did so if any of the board members who play at Rama during the day read this they will know who I am as I kinda stand out. Somewhat literally.

I was taught to max the passline odds but this new time around I have been trying to reduce my risk so I don't use odds until the shooter makes their point and sets a new point then depending on their throws in between I take odds.

Yeah, the "mathematically correct" way to play as touted by most of the gaming authors out there is the old three-point-molly - pass line with odds and a couple of come bets with odds. This is definitely the low vig way to play over the long run. However, most of us are short-run players and the mathematically correct way to play tends to increase short-run bankroll volatility. That's good if you're winning. It's pretty tough if you're losing.

Regression play is basically a grind strategy. You're rarely going to make a huge score - but you're rarely going to get spanked if you maintain your discipline. If I'm playing $66 inside for one hit and regress and get whacked three times in a row - I'm down $200 and out the door. You can't hang in there and chase your losses. You get the heck out of Dodge and live to play another day.

Heavy wrote: I'm down $200 and out the door. You can't hang in there and chase your losses. You get the heck out of Dodge and live to play another day.

This is what I've got to learn. I just keep hanging around the tables after getting spanked hoping the next shooter will turn it around. It normally never happens and I end up getting the worse end of the deal.

Hi all,
I'm new to his board and haven't played craps for 10 years .

Just got tired of the drive to A.C. (from the Philly area) with far too many losing days compared to winning days.

With the advent of Casinos here in Pa.(with one 10 minutes from my front door) I'm getting the urge to Roll again.

On a few recons to the casino, it seems the table minimum is $15 with a occasional $10 table during the day.

The $5 dollar table has gone the way of the great white buffalo here in Pa.

Just reading some of the posts on this forum it would seem I may have been away a little too long. Back when I played I never heard of a DI and don't think I've ever seen one. (This was back in the late 80's)

I was , and probably still, a primarily a 6&8 player. Never really liked the dark side from the perspective of laying more than I could win on a bet.

I saw a reference to a Retire's bet or some wordage like it posted some where in the forums and wondered if any of you guys could break it down to a knuckle head like myself, or if you have any words of wisdom to pass on to some one just getting back into the game with a short bankroll ?

Hi Inspector: You wrote, "I chose the handle I did so if any of the board members who play at Rama during the day read this they will know who I am as I kinda stand out. Somewhat literally." I play at Rama during the daytime, so can you please give more description(literally) for yourself, so we can meet and discuss more about our play. Thnx. Shiraz.

I am tall glasses dressed in a black uniform carrying a tablet. I usually buy in at the $5 or $10. I usually get there and check the table out about 10-10:30 then go play poker for a bit. I start playing craps about 12.

I think I know you. Meet you today at 12 noon.

Shiraz,

It was nice to formally meet you seeing as how we have spoken a few times before now without knowing who each other was...
I am sorry about all the mean things I thought about you while I was shooting before.

How did you end up in todays session?

I left just before 4 and I was +$685 having had shooters hit 2 4 point firebets. Myself I ended up with 5 point firebets... just could not get the fourth even when it was a 6.

I will be good to have someone to talk to and compare notes with, even if you live on the "darkside" lol

Inspector.

LOL. Shiraz has been getting regular dark side coaching from a certain fat guy in Texas via e-mail for many years. He should have it down by now.

Well, he might be doing good. before today when i hit the tables I looked for him to see if he was smiling and what his bet was. I knew to keep away from the table when I saw him with a stack of greens on the Dont.

He makes for a good marker of table dynamics. lol

Inspector - It was my pleasure meeting you officially today. I have no hard feelings for your comments. I am glad you walked out with profit. When I am at the table, I want everyone to win. Pass & Don't pass are not the only way to win. I mostly play don't pass & when I win, some players get upset with me. I sometimes tell them that there are other bets also for you to win, such as place bets, field, hardways, Horn, firebets etc. Today we talked a few times, & I am glad we were both playing at different table. You started playing at my table, & you soon realized that it was a cold table, so you changed & I was making a killing. I will not mention over here how much I made, but it was 4 figures. I will tell you exactly how much when we meet again. See you soon.

SORRY - In my last message I forgot to thank fat guy in Texas - he is my BIG GURU & here is my BIG THANKS to him ( Heavy ). I will be in Las Vegas 26th, 27th & 28th this month.

Shiraz,

Say it isn't so, How will I ever evaluate a table without you there. lol
Have fun in Vegas.

Inspector

Inspector, You are more experienced than I am. Good luck.