Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

This question goes out to the experts and experienced craps players. The game of craps is a negative expectation game, it has all kinds of variances and most play results are inconsistent (wins & losses). What is the best way to build and manage a bankroll for the long term when the goal is to better one's game and become a more consistent winner? I think Scoblete refers to the bankroll as a 401(g). In blackjack, I have heard of using the Kelly Criterion. This is where you bet only a percentage of your total bankroll so it is never fully at risk. In craps, it is best to have a good sized buy-in to allow for the swings in variance. I think the Kelly Criterion would be effective once you reach a decent sized bankroll of $10K or more, but getting there is the hard part. Do most of you use a replenishable bankroll? Or do you consistently put away a portion of your winnings and let it grow? How best do you manage it?

Discipline seems to be the greatest factor in building the bankroll. My brain struggles with justifying the opportunity costs of replenishing a bankroll and placing that money at risk in a craps game versus making a long term investment in the market where the risk might be less volatile. I also think in terms of the "Latte Factor" as coined by self-acclaimed financial guru David Bach. If saving and investing $5 a day by forgoing a cup of coffee adds up to a substantial sum over the long term, how much more does the amount we invest in playing craps add up?

Do most of you justify the money you invest in playing craps as an entertainment cost? Or, have you reached the skill level where wins are much more consistent allowing for you to build a bankroll? Is your discipline to minimize losses solid that the risk of going on tilt is pretty much nil?

Your thoughts and input are appreciated.

Whether you play for fun or play to win or somewhere in between, I think it is wise to have a dedicated bankroll for gambling. The best way to build a bankroll is to add a portion of your winnings back into the gaming kitty or put money into your bankroll from your job. As your bankroll increases, increase the size of your bets. Most would say as your bankroll decreases, you should also downsize your bets. I don't agree with that; I think it is important to keep yourself at your base bet, otherwise you have to win twice as much to replenish what you have lost.

Find a strategy that works best for you and stick with it. As you get better, you might consider changing your strategy. However, the key to building a bankroll is discipline, money management, and winning (lol).

Excellent question, and some good comments from BTF.

Dedicated bankroll? Absolutely. I keep mine in a separate checking account.

Years ago I wrote an article on bankroll building, but I can't seem to turn it up on the old hard drive. I'll give you what I can from memory. Back in the early years I was always on the lookout for what I call "opportunity dollars" to supplement the gaming bankroll. That meant adding 50% of every win to the "growth" account. It also meant that whenever money "fell from the sky" I usually dedicated it to gaming bankroll as well. Believe it or not, recycling those old soda and beer cans can add a few extra bucks to your pocket. There was a time when - if I received a dividend check from an investment account - I'd put it directly in the gaming account. Income tax refund? Yeah, I'd clip half that. I've even sold vacation days back to the company and taken the cash to add to the gaming fund. So there are plenty of ways to "find" money if you're willing to look. My brother used to take on an extra moonlighting job to earn money for vacations. Another guy I know picks up used tires from tire stores (free) and re-sells them. The list goes on and on.

As for betting strategies - the Kelly is a good way to play, but many players have a difficult time determining exactly what their base bankroll is for determining their average bet. Is it the amount of money you have in your rack, the amount you brought with you for this particular gaming trip, or perhaps even more than that? Also, you have to have a very firm grasp on what your positive EV is in order to bet the Kelly properly.

I know many blackjack pros who advocate playing a full Kelly - but virtually none of them actually do so. Most play a partial Kelly. It's not the optimum bet size mathematically - but even with math guys - it is apparently not all about the math.