Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Hi I'm new to the forum and this is my cherry post. I've got a FNG question. Say I'm playing the darkside and I bet a unit on the don't pass. Then a 6 or 8 point is rolled. Can I place a bet on the point as a doey/don't? The pro's seem to be a reduced loss if the point is made. Any con's that you can think of?
Thanks,
SpecEd

Yeah, you can indeed place the point and this is a strategy some players use. Let's take it out of the realm of the $5 - $10 bettor and consider the $100 bettor. He bets a $100 DP and the shooter establishes the six as the point. He then Places the point for $90. At this point he cannot lose. If the shooter sevens out he loses his $90 but wins the $100 for a net win of $10. If the shooter makes his pass he wins $105 but loses the $100 DP for a net win of $5. The rub in all this is that when you get whacked by the seven or eleven when you have that $100 Don't bet out there waiting to get established - it takes a LONG time to recover at $5 to $10 a win - especially if (God forbid) you get whacked by ANOTHER Come Out seven or eleven.

There have been a lot of hedge moves proposed through the years that can enable you to get a point established without fear of the seven. For example, You can bet $20 on the DP and lay $41 no four or no ten. If the shooter tosses a seven you lose the DP bet but win the $41 no four or ten - reducing your sevens exposure to $1. Unfortunately, if the shooter tosses a four or ten (whichever you lay) you lose $41. Players sometimes take a partial hedge against this by betting - say a $5 hard four or ten. And, of course, you'll then see the easy four or ten roll and that loss will be $46 instead of $41. Therein lies the problem with hedge betting. You end up hedging your hedges and before you know it you're lost in the bushes.

SpecEd wrote:Hi I'm new to the forum and this is my cherry post. I've got a FNG question. Say I'm playing the darkside and I bet a unit on the don't pass. Then a 6 or 8 point is rolled. Can I place a bet on the point as a doey/don't? The pro's seem to be a reduced loss if the point is made. Any con's that you can think of?
Thanks,
SpecEd

I agree with Heavy on that one, also one thing he didn't mention, if you bet one unit on a DP then a 6 or 8 rolls if you place it for 1 unit, on a 7 you're assured of a $1 loss since it would be a $5 DP but a $6 place bet, that on top of the comeout losses.

Thanks for the replies. Shows I still have a lot to learn.

Heavy wrote: Therein lies the problem with hedge betting. You end up hedging your hedges and before you know it you're lost in the bushes.

Excellent, I'm going to quote that from time to time.

Some people like getting lost in the bush...

I have never been a fan of hedging. It seems like a lot of money moves around but in the end it all just whittles your bankroll down.

Hedging does lower your return. That said, there is a time for hedges. Time being within a specific session. Day in and day out it ain't good.

For me playing dark I will react to the table trends, if I see one. If there are a lot of yo's on comeouts I will size a yo bet to cover my DP, usually $1 yo for a $15 DP. If the 7's are flying I will lay the 6 or 8. For me they are cheaper than the 4 or 10. Now, if the 6 or 8 start becoming the point more than I'd accept I'll move to the 5 or 9. I might continue this for this session, or if the trend changes I will stop hedging.

Glad to see you trying the darkside. Learning that can make you a more complete player and your career can last longer. Don't be 1 dimensional. When the time is right we will teach you the simple beauty of a hop bet on the 7's.

Good Luck

Golfer

Effen New Guy

Hard to believe any Vietnam vet doesn't know who the FNG is.

UNHH!!BC was one of those at Bergstrom in 1960

SpecEd wrote:Hi I'm new to the forum and this is my cherry post. I've got a FNG question. Say I'm playing the darkside and I bet a unit on the don't pass. Then a 6 or 8 point is rolled. Can I place a bet on the point as a doey/don't? The pro's seem to be a reduced loss if the point is made. Any con's that you can think of?
Thanks,
SpecEd

Similar to what you wrote I use to do a $6 DP bet. If the point was a 4/10, I'd place that number for $5. 5/9, $5. 6/8 $6. This would always yield a (small) profit except for a 6/8 pass line winner, which would be a break-even result. However, the con, and it is a big one is the come-out losses.

Should you ever deign to take one of our Advanced Betting Strategy Classes you'll hear us spend about 40% of the class hammering you on Dark Side Play and 20% of the class on Hybrid Play that incorporates an element of Dark Side Play combined with Right Side Play. This old thread from 2013 asks one of the questions we often get - should you place the point when the DP is on the Six or Eight instead of taking the DP down or saying "no action" on it? Of course, we've all heard it said that you NEVER take down a DP bet - but here it's explained in more detail. IF you have more questions on transition plays on the Dark Side or how to use Place action as part of your Don't play feel free to throw them out now. We'll do our best to answer.

Never take it down, in fact if there's another darksider at the table, offer to buy it from them, when they cry "no action"! Now you have two hammers on the house, DN8R