Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

On my last trip this guy was making some very odd bets. Couldn't really catch on to what he was doing but one bet I noticed was he would make a dc bet. If it traveled to the 5,6,8 or 9 he would wait one more roll and tell the dealer to move it back to the don't come box. If it traveled to the 10 or 4 he left it until a decision. He did this every time he made a dc. Thoughts?

The guy doesn't know what he is doing. As soon as the DC moves to the number the odds are in his favor no matter what the number is. If it is 4-10 the odds are 2-1 in his favor for a win, 5-9 the odds are 3-2 and 6-8 the odds are 6-5 in his favor. So I would never move a traveled DC bet back to the DC box. I have seen players not let the DC travel on 6&8 and even that is a bad play. If you are going to bet DC and you make it past the next roll (no 7 or 11 rolls) then let it ride, the odds are on your side for the win.

Agree with al_falcons that they guy is not making the "correct" play. If he only wants the No-4 or No-10 then he could just lay those numbers instead of going at risk in the DC. He is probably thinking he is doing a form of a hedged DC play to try and "walk" the DC bets to the outside numbers. Maybe he likes the DONT play, but does not like the idea of "Laying more to win less" part of a Lay-Bet. If that is what he is doing then it is something similar to Patricks ric play. Not the worst strategy in the world if he is trying to get some don't "action" going while controlling his overall outlay/exposure on the table.

Just another thought: there is no mystery to his bet, meaning it is not a special bet that no one knows about. "Don't" bets are NOT contract bets and you can remove them at anytime (unlike the Pass-Line and Come bets). It sounds different to have the player say move that bet to the Don't-Come, but all he is doing is turning two steps into one: Take down the established Don't, but up a "new" Don't-Come bet. And because the player has the advantage on the established Don't, the casino is more then happy to let the player take it down and put the money back into the DC box, where the casino now has the advantage.

Example:

Player puts $10 in the Dont-Come.
Shooter rolls a 5.
The $10 moves to "behind" on the number 5 (now an established Don't-Come).
Player puts another $10 in the Don't-Come.
Shooter rolls a 4.
The $10 moves to "behind" on the number 4 (now a second established Don't-Come).
Player says; move the don't 5 to the DC box.
- Dealer takes down the DC on the 5 and puts the $10 in the DC box
- Player only has the established DC on the 4
Shooter rolls a 10
The $10 DC moves to "behind" on the number 10 (now a second established Don't-Come).
Player has DC's on 4 and 10 and makes no more bets
Shooter rolls a 6. - No effect, no changes
Shooter rolls a 7.
Player wins $20

Just think of all the times he takes his established DC down and puts a new DC, only to have the 7 roll then. Instead of winning $10 he's losing $10. WTG!

Typical dark side scared money move. Instead of taking the DC down I'd be laying odds.

He did a couple of odd bets. I can't remember them all but they were individual bets. Hardway with no other bet. Pass line with no other bet. That type of thing. I don't give advice at the table but another guy did say if it were him he would make a 4 or 10 lay. The bettor grinned and said "just watch". I wasn't sure what to watch ?!? He did manage to get it to the 10 or 4 a couple of times but he did lose more often than not. Also he never made multiple dc bets. It was always a single dc. If it hit 4 or 10 wait on decision, Any other number, put back until he lost or got it to the 4 or 10. Just thinking of what Heavy said and the fact he would only make one bet at a time it may have been scared money. Just different.

If a DC travels or a DP gets a point established , half the battle is won . Picking up a DP or not letting a DC travel is as stupid as a rightside player , playing a doey-dont.

I`m stupid so ignore the above if you like.

Naw, I am always happy that a DP or a DC is not taken down by a natural. So I love any point , even a 6 or an 8. The only way I would take a DP or a DC down after a point is that someone is pressing a gun aginst my head or a pretty lady has made me an offer. Then I gotta go.

should have tried to buy his action after it moved?

Yes, that play makes no sense. If he did not want the other numbers for whatever reason, the smart thing to do is place them for a similar amount of money, which can create "no lose" situations. Example -- if you have a $10 no 9 and place it for $10, the outcome will be either win $4 or lose nothing.

Dylanfreake wrote:If a DC travels or a DP gets a point established , half the battle is won . Picking up a DP or not letting a DC travel is as stupid as a rightside player , playing a doey-dont.

I'd say 60% of the battle is won

wudged wrote:

Dylanfreake wrote:If a DC travels or a DP gets a point established , half the battle is won . Picking up a DP or not letting a DC travel is as stupid as a rightside player , playing a doey-dont.

I'd say 60% of the battle is won

Where is the "like" button on this forum!!! Oh Yea once you get the number set with a DC or DP you gotta let it ride.

Dragline wrote:Yes, that play makes no sense. If he did not want the other numbers for whatever reason, the smart thing to do is place them for a similar amount of money, which can create "no lose" situations. Example -- if you have a $10 no 9 and place it for $10, the outcome will be either win $4 or lose nothing.

In other words" Im going to make risk to avoid the 7 in an attempt to get the advantage then give up that advantage to most likely break even"

bahdbwoy wrote:should have tried to buy his action after it moved?

Buy it from the guy before he moves it, I'd think, provided the casino allows it. A DC that's traveled is a contract bet, so I'd think the house would have to honor it, no matter what arrangement you make with the person who first made the bet.

The question is how much to pay for the DC bet. It's like a Lay bet, only better because it pays 1:1, not true odds. Can anybody figure out what's a reasonable amount to pay for a DC in this situation?

Fuzzy

A DC that's traveled is a contract bet

Actually, it's not because the house will let you take a DC bet down at any time. I've "bought" a few DC bets from other players before. If he has $25 up on it just toss him a quarter and tell him to leave it up and you'll buy it from him. Make sure you get paid for the bet when it wins.

Fuzzy2u wrote: Can anybody figure out what's a reasonable amount to pay for a DC in this situation?

Fuzzy

Hmmm, let's see. I would venture a guess of "face value".

Why would the owner of the original DC bet take anything less than the bet value when all he has to do is tell the dealer to "take me down" and he will get the full amount back?

realtime wrote:
Hmmm, let's see. I would venture a guess of "face value".

Why would the owner of the original DC bet take anything less than the bet value when all he has to do is tell the dealer to "take me down" and he will get the full amount back?

Let me rephrase the question: Do you pay him a vig for this bet, in addition to the face value of the bet, and if so, how much?

I'll pay him face value every day of the week to take over that DC.

Fuzzy

'Course if this guy is dumb enough to take down the DC in the first place, he's probably not smart enough to ask for any more from you or me than face value. Pay the man and take over his bet.

Fuzzy

Well, first thing is that a player that wants to take down a DC bet probably isn't very informed about that kind of bet in the first place, so in the heat of the game I doubt he/she would/could figure out what you are talking about and figures you are trying to screw them somehow.

But if you find someone that wants to negotiate with you, you have to ask yourself based on how much odds you want to lay or are allowed to lay against that DC bet, how much are you willing to pay compared to what juice you would have to pay to just lay that number directly.

Unless the DC is a large amount, I think you will be negotiating over a couple of dollars in any case.

There is an older guy at a casino I frequent that only plays the Don't. He is there for usually hours - he pulls a chair over from one of the other table games and sits there chewing on his cigar.

He never rolls - which seems to be standard for Don't players - and he only plays the minimum bet. $5.00 table - so a $5.00 Don't Pass, and then $5.00 Don't Comes. For whatever reason, he doesn't like the Five, because if a Five is rolled and his Don't Come travels to the Five, he takes it down. 4, 6, 8, 9, and 10 he leaves up. And he never plays odds - just the $5.00 minimum bet.

Not sure why he takes the 5 down, I would think if anything, the 6 or 8 would be taken down as those numbers are more likely to roll before a 5. But as has been said, once the Don't Come has traveled, the odds are in the Don't's favor.


I saw a funny thing yesterday when I went to The Rivers casino in Pittsburgh. A Don't player was at the end of the table I was at and playing $50.00 Don't Pass. That is all he played other than putting odds on it, he never made any Don't Come bets. The dice passed by him several times and he didn't throw, but for whatever reason, the next time the dice came to him, he decided to shoot. $50.00 Don't Pass and he got a point of 10.

No one at our side of the table put any bets down, but down at the other end of the table - it was business as usual. Pass Line bets with odds, and Place bets. The following is what he rolled:

10, 9, 6, 11, 6, 8, 10 Winner! (Of course he didn't win.) He throws down another $50.00 on Don't and rolls an 8. He puts on odds. He continues 6, 6, 6, 11, 5, 11, 5, 10 and finally a 7. He won that one - of course, people down on the other end of the table that played won too with all of those 6's!!

What was funny was the one time one of the dice went over the table and onto the floor and he called "Same dice."!!!!!!!!! I see that all the time with Pass Line shooters, but to see a Don't Shooter do it was just ironic!

The worst thing I would do is if I got a $25 bet on the DP and it was a 6/8 I would throw a $25 DC out there in hopes of getting a better number and then picking up the original DP line bet that was on the 6/8. I can't tell you how many times the shooter buckshot the point or 7'd out immediately making my move null and void. Sometimes I would get a better don't number and the shooter 7'd out the next roll. I finally figured out I was just adding risk and not accomplishing much.

An older gentlemen who I have never seen play anything but the dont's told me one day "there is no reason to fear the 6 or 8 when you got the F'ing 7 on your side".