Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Hi everybody! I am a confirmed don't bettor and I've been experimenting with simply laying whatever point number is established and have had some good results. In four trips to my local casino this year I've returned on three of them with a 200% profit and broke even on one. I am not a high roller by any means. My bankroll on these trips has been $400.00. I will also spend as much time as it takes to chart tables looking for one that is contusive to this way of betting. I would like to hear your thoughts on this style of play. Thanks and best of luck to you all!

My opinion: Not a bad way to play the dark. You are taking out the seven/eleven CO that seems to wreck a lot of darksiders. I suppose laying the point is about as good as any but it doesn't matter which point you lay.
You are in the same boat. Now, on laying the point: I have seen a lot of chicken feeders set the dice to what ever point they want then throw them. Those that do that are actually enhancing your chances of winning the lay bet.

BTW: I see this is your first post: WELCOME ABOARD the best craps site online. If you are an aspiring DI you will find infinite information here and on the Dice Institute board. If you have joined that one, do it. You will be a welcome and important part of a growing community that is of like minded people.

Keen observation in laying the point. This is similar to a play John Patrick has used and recommended for years - the Ricochet. With that strategy you lay against the point for one roll as a hedge to get a DC bet established. Then you remove the lay and wait for a decision on the DC. Example, the six is the point - lay $25 against the six and bet a $20 DC. Five rolls and the DC travels to the five. Now you remove the lay bet and the DC on the five becomes your primary number.

Thanks for jumping right in and posting. Much appreciated.

Welcome Roxtar69 - Laying point is a good idea. Can you please let me know how many times do you let one shooter to take your bets ? If your answer is more than one, then can you let me know how much will your 2nd, 3rd, 4th --- bet be ? THNX.

roxtar69

The vig on laying compares with the commission paid on winning THE BANKER in Baccarat..
Also even should the shooter win by repeating the FIRST P/L wager,reality is the odds favor
the shooter losing successive Pass Line wager(s)

Far fewer shooters repeat a second P/L wager and "onso "a third fourth etc,etc....

( a factor shown by the fall off of successful FIRE BET WAGERS )

Fact is THE ODDS are LONG AGAINST one shooter actually tossing ALL THE TEN(10 )
dice combinations with ZERO SEVEN (7) showing to punctuate /interrupt the string of numbers
( 2 ,3,4,5,6,_8,9,10,YO 'LEVEN,twelve) -------- other than THE SEVEN................

Your charting shows that ..

The HOWEVER FACTOR is craps is a game
of negative expectations played by optimists


Welcome on board

W C

Thank you for the input!
In response to your question Shiraz, If they get me on one, I'll come right back on the next point. If I lose that decision as well, I'll stay away from that shooter till the next shooter. I find that when these streaks are happening, the shooters usually do not make that second point. I won't increase my bets after a loss as I play rather conservatively, but it seems to work out well and I can still walk away from the table with a decent return so long as the streak continues.

I only lay the point when the Firebet is involved. When four points are made and the shooter is on the fifth, I do a small lay bet. I make a bigger lay bet when the shooter is on the sixth. I try to do this quietly. I do not want to distract a shooter during a hot roll.

I do not do this but a lay bet on the second point seems to pay off frequently.

I don't like laying the point because of the minimum amount the house requires you to do so. I was playing on a cruise ship last week at a $5 table and wanted to lay the point of 10. I gave them $21 hoping to lay 20 to make 10 and they said the minimum lay amount was $41 to make 20. So instead I made a $10 Done Come bet. I think this is pretty typical for Atlantic City and other casinos, the minimum lay amount would be enough to win you $20, so that would be $30 on 5-9 and $24 on 6-8 plus $1 vig up front. I have never seen a casino that doesn't take the vig up front on lay bets, maybe in MS? That is more than my what I want for my initial bet on a random roller. I would prefer to keep it to $10 unless I am running a loss progression and I am already at a higher amount.

Also in my WinCraps testing the lay the point strategy never seems to do very well on random rollers either tracked in casino or computer generated over the long run. Other methods do better.

Quite a few places in Las Vegas will allow you to lay 4/10 with vig on win only, while requiring it up front for 5/6/8/9. No idea why the discrepancy, although they likely do the same thing for buying the 5/9.