Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

I don't even know where to start. I tip too much. I know I do, and Heavy once advised me to adjust my play in the props so's the dealers and I take down more money. I usually bet two-way hardways piggybacked. We'll go 50/50 on all profits, however I decide to press/parlay the hardways. If my Horn bet parlays, I'll give'm some--e. g., $10 Horn High Ace Deuce, if the 2, 3, 12 parlays to $20 and pays, I'd have made $162 total--I'll throw the dealers $25. When I'm on the ATS, they're on it for at least 1-1-1. I've bet 2-1-2 for them about 1/3 of the time. I didn't think I was 'sidetracking' that much money, but my log shows that that one time when I rolled 5 hard fours in one hand, I left the dealers >$1400. The hand only lasted about 10 rolls. I made out too, but my general pattern is to leave "too much" behind. I'd guess that 10% of the time, I've left more in tips than I won for myself.

However, I think I get better service/consideration when I tip as I play, rather than at the end. Amongst dealer crews who recognize me, they don't niggle their service any less if I don't tip while I play, because I'll tip at the end, and they know I'll take care of them--but this doesn't help my 'cause' when I'm at IP where nobody knows me and few recognize me even after repeated visits. It seems their crews rotate games quite a bit. Even the 4am crews shift around a lot; in five 5am visits, I've met 3 crews.

So what do you suggest as a tipping standard or practice?

Thanks, Guys.

Tipping at the casino is as individual as tipping anywhere else in my opinion. For me, I have recently started tossing out a player controlled place bet on the 6&8 for $1-$2 each depending on how things have gone. From there, they do what I do. I press, they press. I move out to 5/9, they move out to 5/9. Occasionally I play the hardways with a two-way bet, but things have to be going really well for me to enter the prop area.

It has made considerable difference in my treatment at the table and has gotten me remembered and spots at a crowded table. Amazing how that little can cause such positive return.

I have had dealers who didn't do what I told them to do with their bets and if that happens, they get no more action during that rotation regardless of how I'm doing. Next dealer taps in and they are back with me. Message to them is if I win and you do what I say with the tip money, then you win as well.

On a decent hand, those $1 bets can generate far more than I can just hand in.

That's my tipping M.O. these days.


ntcoop

Well, you know my position but I'll repeat it for the folks who haven't heard it before. I believe the best tip plan is to make a dealer bet immediately after buy-in. That lets them know you're on their side from the get go. After that - one bet after every stick change to let the new stick person know you've got them in the game. Doesn't take much - a buck or two will do. Prop bet tokes are the most noticeable because the stick has to place them. I like to make place bet tokes - a buck each on the six and eight with "player control." You can piggyback a buck or two on your PL bet if you wish, but a better bet is to place the toke as Free Odds. When I play the hardways for the dealers it is almost always a $1 bet piggybacked on my hardway bet with player control. If it's a hard six and it hits I let them drop $5 and press to $5. On any subsequent hits they drop a portion of the win and press a portion of the win. In any case, use MP's "branding" technique. Announce loudly that "dealers are in the game" or something to that effect. If I make a line bet for the dealers I make a point of picking up the winning bet before the dealer can drop it - rapping the table with the chips a couple of times and calling out "dealer dough" before tossing it to the box to drop. The point is to get the dealers in the game regularly, make sure all of them know you are betting for them, and making a point of letting them know that money is going in the toke box for them. Last of all, when I color up if I have an odd number of dollar chips left I'll use that as either a hand-in or I'll place some numbers for the boys with the extra chips.

I get the crew more involved when I am a solo player. Many more bets than when I play on a busy table.
On a busier table I do most of my tipping when I throw.
I make a $1 firebet for them. $1 any craps on the come out. I make a two way Hardway bet, if it is an even point.
I also make a few small bets when I leave, win or loss.
I will tip much more when I leave with a big win

Like VegasFan I always throw out a $1 fire bet for the dealers. They really get into the game when they hit.

I do have to ask though... I'm not familiar with the terms "player controlled bet" & "piggyback". Now, I've heard players use the term piggyback and assumed it was the same as a two way bet, correct? Also what do you mean by player controlled?

Piggy backed with player control means you get to say what happens when it wins, i.e. if it will parlay or be paid and taken down. If you just say "Hard eight for me and the dealers" they put your H8 in your spot and the dealers H8 in the center. If it hits it goes straight into the toke box. If you say piggy-backed, that dollar goes on top of your bet, kinda like come bet odds. When it hits you can say what you wish to happen with your and their win, like Heavy does by paying half and parlaying half. Piggy backed should automatically give you player control since it's showing on your spot but if you want control it doesn't hurt to specifically say it. I've had piggy backed bets that quickly went down and when I said I wanted to parley the box said I didn't specifically say player control. Even if you don't want player control, placing them piggy-backed keeps your tokes associated with YOU rather than just in the center of the layout. I did parlay a hard 8 once and the dealers were pretty excited to see $100 go in the box. The boxman made a big point of saying "Green in the toke box" which he said is pretty rare.

I like to do an ISR that is based on the MP204...It is not complex, just unusual. When I make a regression I will add a pass line bet with some odds, just to keep them focused on what I am doing. Once they get it...You can see a light bulb go off over their head and things really smooth out after that. I will bump things up as the hand progresses.

I like this because they recognize it as a trigger point. When they see certain events that prompt a toke, they stay engaged with what you are doing...And know that you have incorporated them into your plan. You may call that a brand in itself.

irish wrote: I'm not particularly fond of a bunch of player control tokes on the place bets. If I get on a nice run, I want payouts to be quick and it just adds a level of complexity. To each his own.
Toke. Be pleasant. Be courteous.

Thanks Irish...interesting insight, I will give the complexity issue some thought...I do like to do the place bet tokes on a long hand
I have found that it does not slow them down very much.

Memo

Irish:

You said it all.. Tip when the dealers are with ya, slow down or cut em off when heat is generated.

IMHO craps dealers are generally paid less than they should be, considering the hyper math they must know. They are generally the smartest and sharpest of the table game crews. Yes, tip out of the gate, especially if you are a definite DI.

The crews like to gamble, but a dealer money hand in is always admired. When I make a "hand in" toke, I try to wait until all bets are settled, everything is quiet, and the dice are in front of me.. Then they are "all ears" and acknowledge the toke. If my toke is say, $15, I say come on now let's get that to a green chip. The boxman will often hoard their tokes until they can deposit a green or black chip in the toke box.

I love MP's method of "branding your tokes", what a great philosophy.

good luck to all
pradice

Do this once a shift and you will be remembered ..
Place $1 on each BOX NUMBER..

..Announce
"I'll control these wagers .As each number hits,pay the win and I will INCREASE that wager.by $1..
As the wager(s) acculturate to $5 ,DEALERS are on their own to lock it up or whatever ".....
.
If I PSO,I'll toss the dealers a Red$5 Chip for THE TOKE Box......and I do not toke again until I have RECOUPED
.
On the hands that perform well,it becomes interesting and my name becomes "MISTER GEORGE"

W C

Learned:
1. Toke right off the bat, preferably with a prop bet because the stickman has to place it.

I piggy-back the dealers on my odds and place bets. I find the branding advice extremely useful but I can't come up with something original to say, and also I don't have the personality to call attention like that to myself all the time.
But I guess the main reason I don't do it is that my tokes are acknowledged and they thank me. But even that tires me and I usually just respond to it with a nod/quick smile/wink.

Wild child:

Seems like a good idea except that NONE of the bets are "square" except for the 4 and 10. The good dealers that like me, hate me and them wasting odds.

How bout $6 each on the 6 and 8? The as the hand progresses maybe $2 each on the five and nine? Now we are square. They will often rake $3 off the 5 and 9 and get away with not paying the vig. I agree always "player controls the bet", for many reasons.

pradice