Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

What if there’s no shooter…?

I’m enjoying reading all of the tips and advice in this forum. I’m in a quandary, though, about some of the advice regarding “qualified shooters.”

The craps table I have access to is an hour away and uses two 36-card decks instead of dice – so the only shooter is the box man handling the cards. Should I rejoice that all shooters are therefore Rambo Randies (sounds better than Randy Rambos)? Should I keep track and bet based on where the dice WOULD have passed if dice were in use? I sure wouldn’t want to wait until a different box man took the cards – I might never get to bet!

Thanks!

Irish: Location: Keller, Texas (On the edge of Fort Worth)

I think he is referring to Choctaw in OK. Just avoid that game. There seems to be a bias toward the Dark but it cost you vig to play it. Make the drive to S/B. There you have a choice of, I think it is six casinos. BTW: ET and Hinduman are not far from you. Get hooked up for practice, etc

If you dont play the pass line or come out, you dont have to pay their 'tax' You can play field or box numbers all you want without paying their tax.

I should have mentioned. I live in Keller, Texas and have played at Choctaw (where the "shooter" specifies a number and the box person deals that number of cards - that is, shows the sixth card if the "shooter" calls "six"). But WinStar is closer (60 minutes each way) and that's the one I've begun to play at.

I've read about the bias toward the dark side and believe it stems from the use of an older card shuffler that, in support of fast Black Jack dealing, maintains a few cards in a "buffer" of sorts. Cards returned to such a chou (shoe?) would obviously not be in the buffer and could influence toward the dark.

The shuffler used at WinStar has no such buffer and is (I believe) shuffling a deck constantly until it is told to spit out three cards. The middle card is scanned and two screens show the point. Once the three cards are spit out, the other (complete) deck of cards begins shuffling immediately and will be used for the next "roll." I'm comfortable that there's no bias but am at a loss as to how to deal with methods that start with, "Wait for a qualified shooter."

I've played at the Sam's in Shreveport (4 to 5 hours) but the casino seems small and the tables crowded - of the two tables at Sam's, one is a "crapless" table.

Shootitall, is Shreveport the "S" in S/B?

Doublyaout - not true. A place better at WinStar must pay the ante (for a come-out cycle) once a point is established and his money is at risk. I've only been going the last several weeks, so maybe they were more generous at first.

Yesterday a left a $4 winner playing Grafstein's basic rightway strategy. $200 buy-in, $204 color out. Approx $30 went to antes, another $15-$20 to pass line bets for the dealers. I was ecstatic that I was able to play for over an hour and "break even," but those antes are a pain in the butt for sure.

Thank you for these replies - but I don't think it's in me to avoid returning once every week or so if I have $100-$200 to risk.

Personally I'd avoid card craps like it was a plague of spiders, snakes, and ex-wives. It seems to me that if I wanted to play cards I'd be playing baccarat or blackjack and if I wanted craps I'd expect dice to be involved, also in the scheme of things you are a few hours away from Shreveport and Bossier City so you have several casinos available if you made a short trip. I can't help but think that your odds of success with dice have to eclipse anything cards could do for you unless someone could develop a card counting method that could work with that game [not that I think it is worth the effort though].

Shunkaha - I can't fault your logic, but it's only recently that I started reading and learning of the various strategies and methods available. Studying them and simulating them using WinCraps are both enjoyable, but neither activity will help me learn to "stick to the script" while standing at a table. I watched four eights in a row yesterday (while I was on the five). I went down to less than half my stake, then back up to maybe 30% over, then back down to "even."

It cost me, sure. But I was able to "lock up" the experience of the temperature variations and chewing on my tongue NOT to abandon my plan and chase those eights. I have to learn patience, making bets, sticking to a plan, and playing the strategies from memory. For me, playing cards at the craps table is good enough for that..., for right now. Obviously it doesn't allow DI practice, and I suppose it could be considered conterproductive realative to learning to play with dice.

BTW, I don't like snakes and spiders either. Don't have any ex-wives but I can imagine.....

Thanks...

You might want to see if they have an electronic version of craps. No Extra vig on those, you can actually buy the 5/9 for a better bet, and the payouts for sub $5 are actually pretty close to correct so you could grind a $1 / bet game and get used to playing with money on the line if that is the goal. A $1 vig on a $5 bet is 20% up front! Such robery. I think everyone should avoid the chiefs craps game for that alone. I think SIA has a saying for them in that regard... E' them? G' them? Maybe something in between...

Bobthetree...

Now that you mention it, I remember seeing such a game at Choctaw. You're right! For betting and practicing a strategy, it would be a superior way to go. I sat at it and played it for a few rolls - I can't believe I'd forgotten it. Thanks for reminding me...

NP, glad to help!

Dblayout....

It's been over a year since my one trip to Choctaw, but after racking my brain overnight, I cannot recall being asked for an ante when I made place bets there. When it was my turn to be the "shooter" (the player who called the number of cards to be burned before showing the "point"), I placed a line bet and was asked to drop a $1 ante.

So, you may in fact be able to dodge the tax by avoiding line bets at Choctaw. But at WinStar you gotta pay to play, no matter how you play. Sounds like I need to visit Choctaw next time I want to practice a place bet method - or, just maybe next time I visit a casino, since Bobthetree reminded me that they have the electronic craps table there. No extra vig at all.

But the machine doesn't laugh at my jokes (but neither do the dealers)....