Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Hello,
I recently had the privilege to meet up with a few DI's. One thing stressed by them is a
clean landing zone. Several of them had taken turns at the Stick R/L Hook and Straight
Out positions to ensure the landing area is clear of chips.

Each of them used different betting strategies for the come out and point sessions. The only
thing in common was that the pass line and surrounding area was chip free.

My style of betting uses the pass/don't pass line. I want to learn betting strategies in case I am in
such a situation were I need to keep them chip free. Particularly for the come out session. A quick
review of the first few pages on this board did not come up with much. Does anyone care to share?

Thanks,


Bill

Well I guess you will have to concentrate just on come or DC betting and placing or laying numbers. There are not a lot of sensible bets left if you are missing out on the passline/DP.

If you expect the shooter to throw a lot of horns or 7-s in the CO roll, you could do $5 world and $6 hop 7-s ($2 each).
Then after the point is set, you can place the point for the odds you intended to take.
You win pretty much the same amount, if not more.

BTW, nice to connect with you in APC.

Sounds like the AC crew look after each other well.
Where I play, chips are everywhere.
No common sense up here.
Players want you to have a long roll yet their chips are right where you are trying to land.

non of my business here, but I would think you could find a spot in the come area that would be out of the way to place bets.

Well, let me start out by suggesting that you forget anything you read by Frank Scoblete, who's next book should be entitled "I'm Clueless About Craps." If you are playing the Doey Don't you are paying double the vig of everyone else playing the PL or DP only. Let me break that down. That's roughly 1.41% on the Pass Line bet and 1.41% on the Don't Pass bet. In a $10 game you are betting $20 in order to get that come out "hedge" and you're paying a 1.41% vig on $20 while everyone else is paying 1.41% on the PL or DP only. You are giving up your Come Out wins nullifying your PL win if you are playing the doey-don't. Scoblete would say you're making your money on the odds and paying zero vig on that wager. But you can't make that wager without having a PL (or DP) bet - depending on which way you are playing. So the idea that you are playing vig-free is a myth. But but but . . . but it is what it is. Scoblete math does not equal REAL math.

Anyway, back on how to play with the dice are coming your way. If you want to play the Pass Line or Don't Pass you need to move over next to the dealer. You cannot be a "blocker" if your chips are going to be in the way. That's the answer.

Now, if you decide you want to be a blocker then you have to give up the Come Out game entirely. Wait until the point is established then, as someone mentioned, play Come Bets and Don't Come Bets OR simply Place Bet.

I choose to Place Bet when our guys have the dice. If an unknown - random shooter has the dice I Play the Don't Pass and Don't Come.

Dice are out - coming my way - no bets are in the way. Let's say the point is the six. Toss out $66 and ask for $66 inside including the point. If the dealer tries to set your place the point bet up on the Pass Line just push it back to him and let him know you prefer to have it out there. If you feel you absolutely must have some Don't action to hedge your place bets - pick a number and Lay it. But seriously - playing that way is sort of like playing to not lose a lot as opposed to playing to win. At least that's how I see it.

Another idea, When I have a blocker that comes with me for the sole purpose of just blocking, as a group, us rollers will cut the blocker in on the win to help cover what he/she did not gain from PL/Odds bet. Another version is to set aside blocker money to add to your PL bets and keep the wins separate for the blocker to receive at the end of the session.
Assuming we had a positive outcome...!

Okay, just for the record. $5 Game. 3-4-5X odds. $5 Pass Line bet. Full odds. Point is six. $30 at risk. Six rolls. Pays $35.

$30 Place bet on the six. Six rolls. Pays $35.

Unless you're playing a 10X or 20X or 100X odds and are availing your self of a significant odds bet - the Place bet with the same money will essentially pay the same.

Thank you for the replies.

The point cycle looks straight forward. Place betting the point made on a 3-4-5 table, as Heavy stated: the 6/8 is a wash. The 5/9 is wash as well. Looks like the buy 4/10 yields a bonus totaling the (pass line bet - vig).

The come out roll is where my interest lies. It looks like the consensus is to wait for the point to set and give up on the come out cycle. I was kind-of surprised to not read a suggestion of 44/40 in/outside WOTCO. Is there a reason this is frowned upon?


Bill

rcsshankar wrote:If you expect the shooter to throw a lot of horns or 7-s in the CO roll, you could do $5 world and $6 hop 7-s ($2 each).
Then after the point is set, you can place the point for the odds you intended to take.
You win pretty much the same amount, if not more.

Thanks. I normally shoot for a point at the come out, but know that others shoot for the 7/11 & 2/3/12. It is good to have something in the back pocket to use with these folks. I will try to run this thru wincraps if I ever get it set up.

rcsshankar wrote: BTW, nice to connect with you in APC.

Same here!

rcsshankar wrote:If you expect the shooter to throw a lot of horns or 7-s in the CO roll, you could do $5 world and $6 hop 7-s ($2 each).
Then after the point is set, you can place the point for the odds you intended to take.
You win pretty much the same amount, if not more.

BTW, nice to connect with you in APC.

Why hop the 7's if you have a PL bet ? unless you are a blocker ?
come out winner on a PL bet is 7 or 11 would not a C+E do the same thing ?
C being the world and the E being the 11