Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

So, on my last trip I had attempted using the hi-low system, but found it extremely hard to keep up with the dealer, my hand, them picking up cards etc. I had done some practicing on some apps, but it just didn't compare.

How do most people practice and get efficient at it?

You can learn the Easy Opp count system in about 45 minutes. Google it and you'll find the strategy on line for free. It's QUITE similar (ahem) to the strategy GTC was charging big bucks for in their blackjack classes. Not quite effective as the hi-low system but much easier to master and (what the heck) we're talking about differences in the hundredths of a percentage point as far as edge is concerned.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/con ... System.htm

Heavy wrote:You can learn the Easy Opp count system in about 45 minutes. Google it and you'll find the strategy on line for free. It's QUITE similar (ahem) to the strategy GTC was charging big bucks for in their blackjack classes. Not quite effective as the hi-low system but much easier to master and (what the heck) we're talking about differences in the hundredths of a percentage point as far as edge is concerned.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/con ... System.htm

Thanks heavy i'll take a look!

Ok one question on the easy opp, when betting are you supposed to bet before you subtract the number of hands that are about to be played or do you bet based on the count with that number subtracted.

For instance, the last hand just finished and the count is 14, do I bet based on 14 there or do I subtract say 7 hands for the full table and my count is 7 before the hand starts?

AntiX wrote:Ok one question on the easy opp, when betting are you supposed to bet before you subtract the number of hands that are about to be played or do you bet based on the count with that number subtracted.

For instance, the last hand just finished and the count is 14, do I bet based on 14 there or do I subtract say 7 hands for the full table and my count is 7 before the hand starts?

Bueller bueller?

Does anyone have an answer to the question though on betting based on running count before or after subtracting hands for that?

The KO (Knockout) count only counts cards and not hands. I have used it with success and consider it easy.
http://blackjackcardcounting.org/ko-system

AntiX wrote:Does anyone have an answer to the question though on betting based on running count before or after subtracting hands for that?

Your running count is based on all the cards you have seen, no adjustments or calculation comes in to play.

Your true count is the running count divided by all the cards that you have not seen yet. There is a little bit of a trick here in the sense that if you have a table full of cards, and are trying to decide what the true count is for a strategy decision or your next bet, then you should imagine all of the cards you have seen as if they were in the discard tray, since they are part of the set of cards that you have seen and taken into account. In practice, though, you shouldn't bother with this level of detail until your counting is solid, it really won't matter that much.

Three tips:

Basic strategy is paramount. As you are practicing your counting, hopefully with a computer based tool, you should also be drilling your basic strategy, and make sure it's the correct strategy for the game you are expecting to play next (H17, DAS, surrender, etc).

Practice is obviously the key to improvement. Pick a system and stick with it. I have an app on my iphone, "BJ Expert" which is good but there are plenty out there. Try out more than one and find something you like enough to keep at it.

It is easy to forget that, as a player, you are in control of the pace of the game. Obviously, you don't want to be a jerk and make everyone wait for you to play while you're counting on your fingers but don't let the dealer rush you. Take time when you need it.


I'm not a great or well bankrolled card counter, but I really enjoy the extra dimension that it adds to the game. Why not try and find an edge if you're going to play? Isn't that where the fun is?

Bonus tip: Life is too short to play through negative counts. When you read about what kind of bet spread it takes to beat a game, that goes out the window if you leave the table after the big cards come out. Find an excuse to leave the table, or just stand up and pretend your girlfriend texted you

I guess I should explain which system i was asking about. I am inquiring about the OPP method Heavy posted where they say to subtract the number of hands about to be dealt from your running count.

If high cards are coming out early in the shoe the count will quickly go negative so you should be betting table minimum would be a significant difference.

You can use advanced play and alter your hitting strategy on negative counts but, I never do that as it's a guaranteed heat magnet if you are in a casino that you visit regularly.

I agree with bobr. Take a break. I also pay close attention to hand composition. If you are getting a lot of pat 20/20 pushes get up and move because the cards were poorly washed and need at least 4 shuffles to get randomized. Also get up and move if the dealer is getting hands like a 9 up with a 7 underneath as this is another indication of poorly washed cards or card intentionally washed to the casinos advantage.

$nakeeye$ wrote: If the deck starts to produce the high value cards in the top of the shoe - is there any " significant difference " in the production of the high cards at this time as opposed to later in the shoe after the production of the little cards ?

Aside from the obvious fact that you do NOT know the length of the production of these cards.

If an excess of big cards come out in the first few hands, then I'm having an advantage on those hands but I didn't know it was coming, so it's just my usual off-the-top bet. That's the downside to the big cards coming out first, that and the fact that now my future hands are at a disadvantage and I've got to find someway to mitigate that.

If an excess of big cards come out in the first few hands, then I'm having an advantage on those hands but I didn't know it was coming, so it's just my usual off-the-top bet. That's the downside to the big cards coming out first, that and the fact that now my future hands are at a disadvantage and I've got to find someway to mitigate that.

"Back in a minute, darlin'. Nature calls." Time that nature break right and you can by-pass the second half of that shoe - no problem. The rules say "no mid-shoe entry," not "no mid-shoe exit."

UNHH!!There is another way to use card counting; knowing when the deck is rich or poor can allow insight to hitting or standing UNHH!!When the deck is rich and you put out a big bet-'IT'S RICH FOR THE DEALER AS WELL.

Yes, its rich for the dealers, but on a blackjack, you get paid 3:2 and when the dealer gets a blackjack, you only lose 1:1. That's a major reason you bet bigger. Unusual strategy decisions are much more important in single deck than the shoe game.

I used to play a very intense system, complete with side count of aces and sevens only for single deck that I had a .8% advantage flat betting. That was a brain twisting challenge, and lots of fun, but also a heat magnet, as missthis said above.