Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Brake Points



There is at times some discussion as to count or not count the Come Out Roll
before the actual count of the number of rolls....
.
To not count the Come Out Roll ,then is the C/O perhaps a "FREE ROLL"?

To count the C/O as Roll # 1 the P S O would be to count the C/O as roll #1 followed by SEVEN OUT Point Seven Out{P S O }
or
Should the C/O not be counted,would the actual count start with the first Box Number after the Come Out roll.....If so how should we count subsequent Horn Numbers( 2,3,Yo-eleven,12 ) until an actual Box Number is shown......follower by roll #2 roll #3 roll #4 etc........
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All the above rattled around between my ears because I recall a discussion on "Break Points"
A Seven Out or even C/O Seven may show at WHENEVER
The discussion or consensus seemed to somewhat that Break Points were at greatest propensity
at or near certain number of tosses or rolls or trials whatever term fits your Comfort Zone
.
.....Were such to hold water as The Seven Out occurring most frequently at certain toss number spots
P S O first toss after Point Number established,followed by the 3rd toss after the C/O point set as
the Pass Line ( P L ) then there being a consensus on "Break Points" frequently observed as a Hand
grows longer in tooth( gets older / mature )

Do you have a stand or thoughts on BREAK POINTS ?

If so at or about which specific or near so would you say are candidates on the subject ?

just me mind muddling about something so subjective as to just a fleeting shadow of thought.

W C

You'd be surprised how many times this has come up in casual conversation lately, WC. My pal Roadrunner had over 90,000 in casino rolls he'd tracked through the years. He sliced and diced those rolls every way you can imagine, and one of the things he looked at was what you refer to as break points - I call them critical points - but they are certain points in a shooter's hand where the wheels tend to fall off - regardless of who the shooter is.

Somewhere in my stack of handout material I've used at the various classes through the years is a chart for tracking in-casino rolls that has these break points highlighted. Roll 8 comes to mind, as does roll 17, 23, 27 . . . I'd be shooting in the dark after that. I'll look around when I have time (maybe over the Christmas holidays) and see if I can find the chart. If so I might just post a copy of it.

At Crapsfest this year I was standing at the table during one hand and one of the guys who was tracking rolls told me we were at 17 rolls. I turned my bets off and the seven showed next. He asked why I did it and I explained the break points thing to him He called me the other day and said he'd been noticing it ever since. It just happens.

Anyone else notice this?

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Had a quick Hit & Git- day trip to Pearl River ( Newly reopened New Moon and Silver Star Casinos )
and certain specific events highlighted 3-8- followed by more 8 -3 on both sides of Hwy 16 face to face....My feeling is there is not much than even empirical evidence on the subject when only one
antique old school orientated crank says it....Even if two or 200 individuals were to say the same
it would at best be little more than "Similarity / coincidence "
or Bull Squash to many "authoritative types"...........Still at that it is something for the "informed"
to know and the heard to go T U M A ............

just me saying

W C

I would think it would depend on the shooter.

If a randy, then yes you would count the 1st roll.

If a DI setting for the come out to bet the middle bets, then no it does not count.

If a DI setting for a box number, then yes.

I think every roll counts - regardless of who has the dice.

Critical Points may be a better reference until we can decide upon some most fitting identification and I see no reason to not give thought to a working identifier than Break Point...
.
.....Should we then be open and giving consideration to going with " Roll Equality " and all rolls be counted equally ? or Why not? if there is reason for such thought .....

..I having perhaps been among the walking while unconscious until I recently returned to actively charting rolls while in the craps pit..
.
....One observation we observed on this most recent Pearl River Resort & Casinos. was several C/O 7's followed by serial C / O 7's plus a time or so mixed in with C/O HORN #'s prior to the Pass Line being set.....followed by a series of Box Numbers,some repeaters
however not seeing any over the top world record setters.....Our total visit was slightly under 4 hours including comped lunch buffet for two.........It may be better to say we only experienced a "window" on the subject on the visit.......Just wondered how others viewed it or even if I was making more of a big deal than it deserves......For my part,I plan to ever more on the look out
for a repeat or near so repeat....Eventually I'll observe some rolls greater in number and study if
I can perhaps observe if there could be junctures of similar critical points up into the world of GREATER NUMBERS.......Perhaps there will also follow interest from others to identify said Critical Points.........Then the what to do with that body of information to contribute to some advancement
added to the collective Advantage Player knowledge base.....
and apply such to an effective A P Wager Plan..

Just me saying

W C