Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

I quite like come betting. It appeals to me because of the low vig. Also if I am in a house that offers decent odds, I can do a nice progression via upping the odds portion of the bet.

Yes I know you need to hit a number twice to get paid which a lot of people don't like and yes I know a come out 7 is a royal pain in the backside, as are crap numbers when you are trying to get numbers established.

However, what about betting the ATS and doing that in conjunction with come betting? OK you don't get paid the first time a number hits, but this can be slightly offset by you knocking one number off your ATS. Also, if you have a craps number with a come bet up, then there can be consolation on that too as you are getting rid of difficult ATS numbers. If you progress into a hand and are building the ATS and getting comebets established, then if you hit your point you can always up your initial passline bet to offer some kind of protection to the the dreaded 7 on the come-out.

Any thoughts on this approach?

An ATS strategy with come bets should work fine as a person making come bets isn't trying to toss sevens on purpose on comeout rolls.

I like betting 1/1/1 on the ATS and going to 2/2/2 if I lose $36.00 or 12 tries without a hit. Don't play this way if your daily bankroll can't handle several hundred dollar swings in volatility.

A come betting strategy also protects you from PSO's adding to your bankroll volatility.

Don't like contract bets in general. I will make a PL bet when I shoot, but the bare minimum.

Well, the only time I make Come bets are as minor hedges or when I want to put my bets on auto-pilot and not really think about progressions. If I'm doing that then it probably means I'm at table max on a number. Doesn't happen often in the "real" casino world but you'd be surprised how often you run up against table max in the Indian casinos.

I don't see anything wrong with your thinking, LS. As stated already, the shooter should be trying to avoid the seven so you're probably safe as you can be on any other toss on the Come Out. Then again, I've been knocked off of ATS bets many times on the Come Out. Selective memory? Probably so. If it didn't cost me money I wouldn't remember it. LOL.

Good point about the volatility mss. I now set aside around £20 or £30 for ATS bets from my buyin. If I get a hit, I'll top that up, but if one doesn't land then it's time to quit. It can certainly be a money pit and with over 7% HA you don't want to fight that battle for too long.

Also a good point about a shooter who may be setting 7s on the comeout. Last thing you want is to have an ATS on a half decent shooter who is not playing it themselves and wants to try for the 7 on the comeout. I guess knowing your shooters if they are regulars or hopefully being observant along the way is fairly crucial.

If I do get knocked of an ATS on the come-out I usually reload the bet once only.....and that's only if it feels early enough in the hand. If it's a hand somebody (or myself) has been throwing for a while, then I'll skip any reload. I don't know how long a hand this "feeling" tends to be, perhaps if we get into double figures on the roll.

It's certainly not a bet to chase. Heavy recounted a story recently with several consecutive 7s on the come out roll which had all the ATS players reloading several times and had the casino rubbing their hands at the easy money.

I notice some players make their Pass Line wager the same as their ATS wagers. Example: ATS. 3. 2. 3. Pass Line. $8. This way the player breaks even on those come out sevens.

Dylanfreake wrote:I notice some players make their Pass Line wager the same as their ATS wagers. Example: ATS. 3. 2. 3. Pass Line. $8. This way the player breaks even on those come out sevens.

I've noticed that too. The last time I was in KC there was a guy betting $25.00 on the pass line and 10/5/10 on the ATS. It was a $5.00 20X odds game and he rarely took over $50.00 in odds.

Personally I'd rather stick with the $5.00 on the pass line and use the other $20.00 for odds on a 20X game.

I think there are better uses for the money too as mss says.

If you are betting a bigger passline bet in order to overcome ATS losses, or create a push, then you are probably over-betting the ATS in my view. As I said above, I don't mind occasionally upping my passline bet later in a hand if a point has been made and my ATS has been building nicely. That would mean something along the lines though of only being a single number away from a payout.

Well Irish, it is a bit of a contradiction, but the ATS is my guilty pleasure if you like. I just don't bet the centre bets ever here in the UK. In the US I may throw some dollars on the hardways. Over here we have to do them at £3 a time and though they pay better, it keeps me off them.

I'm a conservative bettor by nature. The ATS gives me a shot at hitting a relatively big pot and it may end up even rewarding you on one of those hands where you never seem to get anything going, but spray the numbers around everywhere, including a lot of trash.

Wow, 3 pounds for an ATS bet, so is the minimum 3 + 3 + 3 if you bet them all? What's the minimum on the pass line bet?

Last week, I was place betting off-strip and went up on the ATS and was advised by the Stick-man that I needed a PL, DP or a field bet in order to make the ATS bets. Has any one else encountered this? I put $5 on the PL and got a yo for the effort - picked up the $10 and waited for the point to be established. I like the ATS, prefer the Fire Bet, since a come-out seven does not knock it down. I think if you're at a preferred table position, then you should go up on it, when you're shooting. It gets you focusing and puts a nice vibe on the table when you have 4 out of 5 on one of both.

D.N8r

No, £3 for a hardways. The ATS you have to do in £2 units, so £6 if you want to go across, though personally I don't do the ALL, just either the small on randies and the small and tall on myself

. £5 is our min passline bet.

I've seen the must have passline/DP thing before. Last year at the IP in Biloxi I started betting ATS on the occasional shooter with no other action. This went unnoticed for a while, then a new box told me I had to have some kind of passline or DP bet when a shooter started throwing. Over here I bet ATS all the time as a lone bet with no other action on that shooter.

Hi London: What's the price of gold and gasoline or petrol as you guys call it across the pond? I just checked a pound verses dollar chart and it was uglier than I was expecting. I can remember when a pound= $2.00 not too many years ago.

Hi MSS, petrol over here (gasoline) costs £1 per litre, down from around £1.30 a few months ago.

We used to buy it in gallons. Our gallon would equate to a cost of £4.55, but your gallon is smaller, so it works out at £3.85 per US gallon size, so at the current exchange rate of $1.45 to the £ we are at $5.58 per US gallon right now.

When the £ got to $2 a few years ago, I bought a load of dollars. It was a high as I had known in my adult life and seemed an ideal time to buy and just sit on them and use for future trips. I pretty much hit the top of the market which was nice.

London Shooter wrote:
When the £ got to $2 a few years ago, I bought a load of dollars. It was a high as I had known in my adult life and seemed an ideal time to buy and just sit on them and use for future trips. I pretty much hit the top of the market which was nice.

Nice: That was a good investment. Back in those days the rage over here was to convert your dollars to Euro's. That turned out to be a bad move.


On my office wall I have a Zimbabwe Fifty Trillion Dollar Bill that I bought on Ebay for $3.00 US a few years ago. I use it as a reminder of how fragile the paper currency system is.

I remember collecting stamps as a child and having several million mark and above denominations from Germany. Same as your point about Zimbabwe

When I was playing Saturday morning there was a guy betting 5/5/5 on the ATS. Any time there was only one number left to complete the small or tall that was a box number he was hedging by laying that number. The two times I noticed he was doing it the remaining point was 4. He laid it for $80.00 when I was tossing and I made it and one other time he laid it for $60.00 and the shooter didn't make it.

Does anyone else do this to hedge their ATS?

Yes I often lay a number if I am not having a good session and want to guarantee some funds back.

The ATS and come betting are both sort of aligned, increasing your per hand volatility. It might be interesting to toss a DC bet in there as a countermeasure/hedge instead. WHile you're not a favorite to win both bets, it could happen. A more likely outcome is the ATS will go down and you'll get paid on your DC. Not a horrible way to play the randies, although I don't think it would be profitable.

Of course you could easily lose on both, too. I might be tempted to throw one out there directly after the shooter makes the all or tall or small, although that might draw some boos from the other players, lol.

I think that's an interesting play: put out a DC after they stop the game to pay the small or tall. 4 times last weekend after the stoppage the next toss was a seven, so maybe a Lay instead on the point? Regrettably two of those four was me, despite my best efforts to counter-ice that negative vibe, by both times throwing a piggy-backed hard ways bet out; the devil came. Laying the point provides the opportunity for both bets to win ( i.e. the remaining small/tall, the All, and the Lay).

D.N8r

What was really vexing was after the small or tall was paid, people immediately came back up on it (further delaying the game), vice waiting for a decision on the other two....has anyone ever seen a small or tall repeat before its complement or the All?

I've also played DCs in conjunction with the ATS on randies.

e.g I bet only one side of ATS usually I choose the Small. If I get two numbers marked off on the small, then I try and get two DCs established on this shooter. Sit back and see what happens