Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Before you can fix a problem, you have to admit that you have one.

I am becoming really consistent with my shooting, and have nothing to show for it.

Over the last month, at the casino, I have averaged hands of 24, the longest was Friday morning at Charlestown.
I held the dice for an hour and 40 mins. The hand was 47 rolls, throwing only 3- 7 sevens, 2 CO winners, and I hit the Small on ATS. I threw the 6/8 22 times, and 4 of those were HW winners.

I was shooting from SO. 3 finger 4/5-4/6.

Whenever I shoot, I get into the "zone" for shooting and I shut everything out. There were 3 stick changes on my rolls. Dice left the table twice. The table was full and no one bought in.

All I had was a passline and double odds. $15 table. 3x-4x-5x odds.

In the past, when I have attempted to bet and shoot, I have not yet mastered the mental side of staying in the "zone" and thinking about the next bet, so I have not done it.During my roll on Friday, I won 3 players over $3000 each. I won only $380.When I did SO out, it was after tossing the only 12 of the entire hand. Huge ovation from the table and the floor manager came and congratulated me on the roll.

I have only been shooting since June 2014, and I know that this is a marathon not a sprint.

So far this community has been so gracious with ideas and thoughts about challenges, I am open to anything that can assist me in taking advantage of my skills at this point in time.

Have you tried shooting with a partner? You could trade off responsibilities so that they would make bets when you are shooting and vice versa.

Bandit,
I understand what you are going through. When I started out I had a really hard time betting since I was in the zone tossing. All I can say to that is that it gets easier with more experience as you get more relaxed with switching back and forth between tossing and betting. I can't tell you how I did it or when it happened but it did happen for me and I am sure it will happen for you at some point as well.

Do you know when you go to the table how you are going to bet on yourself? You have a plan right? Whatever that plan is then tell the dealer when you are getting the dice for the first time that day. If you are tipping they should take care of you even if you don't say the same thing after every dice toss. For instance, your plan is to bet the pass line with double odds and the 6 & 8 for table minimum. You set up your bets and tell your dealer that every time a 6 or 8 hits that you want to press it a unit even if you don't say it. Could he please automatically take care of that for you? As long as it is something consistent it should be no problem. Hope this suggestion might help you some.

Bandit,
Congrats on a super hand. Betting will come in time, but well done on those Charles Town tables, they can be tricky.

D.N8r

PS Sent you a PM......

Irish is right. The dealer is your friend. He/she is there to help you. A dealer toke on the PL along with instructions for them to press your place bets a unit each time a number hits. Early in my craps career, pre-DI, I was unfamiliar with pressing and I asked the dealer if he could help me out. I started with a PL bet plus odds and a $12 six and eight. I managed a good roll and the dealer had my six at $600 and my eight at $900 by the time the roll ended. I now realize he was pressing a little more aggressively than I normally would, but hey, it paid off. I was smiling ear to ear when I took my winnings to the cage. I toked him a black chip and a big thank you.

Bandit

A lot of people have that same issue, it's a difficult problem. There are a few ways you can deal with it, but it depends on you. At it's core, what you want to do is separate yourself from the money/betting, so you can focus on your tossing. Let me ask you though, if someone else were tossing the dice and you were betting, how would you have bet the hand? I don't know what type of bettor you are? $96 across, $66 inside, $18 6/8?

For me, I'm very dispassionate about the money, mentally I know what the next press move to take before the dice are even tossed. You could try that tactic, a lot of people can do it to a certain point, where I see a lot of people break down is when the bets reach a certain level. They realize OH MY GOD, I've got a huge amount of money on the table and as soon as that happens, your done, regress it back all the way or take it all down. It's the realization that it's REAL MONEY out there. Imagine if they did use real money on the table, and your staring at $100 bills on the layout!

Anyways, like I said, if you were a spectator watching your hand, how would you have bet it?

Well, I'll just echo what Irish and others have said. You don't have to have any sophisticated play. Start with something as simple as $12 each on the six and eight and just say "up a unit" each time something hits. The first time you get paid $21 for one of those bets tell the dealer to place the five and nine for $10 each. Same thing from there. Up a unit. But don't let it get in your head. Once you're bets are paid for you can't lose on that hand.

You might want to play a positive winning progression on BJ Roulette or Baccarat to acclimate yourself to making larger bets. I remember many years ago the first time I made a $50.00 bet on BJ my hand was shaking so bad I could hardly get the bet out there. You don't want that if you're tossing the dice.

I learned to make larger bets on other games. When I started playing craps that was never an issue.

I've never played bubble craps, but might that also be used as a mechanism for focusing on betting strategy rather than toss mechanics?

Technically yes you could use bubble craps to help you with betting strategy, but then again, you can do it with a simple pen/paper. All you need is a book of rolls, and use that and it won't cost you any real money. However there is nothing like being on an actual table making real bets.

With any betting system, I would definitely ease into it.

Another simple system you can try is a pay/press system. For example, let's take a simple 6/8 example, you have $12 on the 6/8. First hit, collect $14, and next hit press it, go to $18, next hit collect $21 etc. Some people like pressing in pairs, but I generally follow a policy of pressing whatever is hitting. Once you have locked up some profit you might place an additional number and follow the same system. Sometimes I may just move an existing number that hasn't been hitting, like say all your hits have been on the 6, but no 8's, I'd just move my 8 to say like the 5 or 9. This way we are not putting out any additional money.

I'll throw my hat in and agree that "up a unit" is a good move here, even better if you can get the dealer to press that way automatically. You can just pick up the payouts and if you are in the zone, probably won't even know how much each number is pressed up to.

Also, from a personal point of view, I am not an aggressive presser, so "up a unit" is often what I will do, sometimes for the duration of the hand. The other thing is that as the hand progresses, the %age you are putting back in the rack increases v the %age you leave on the table.

Up a unit may not win you the spectacular large bounty on a long hand, but when guys talk about how much they left out there when the 7 comes, relatively speaking you will be in very good shape.

I am surprised no one mentioned WinCraps. Excellent way to accumulate any level you want. You can do the free version that drives you nuts or spend a couple of bucks and get the real deal. I am sure there are many on this board that will help you with using it. sia

In my case playing software or a machine was no help when it came to getting rid of the butterflies or anxiety in a live game where you are shoving the chips across the felt. Others may have different experiences.

I agree with you mssthis1. I used to joke with people that wanted to learn fast, fine, take your money to a casino and get on a game, you'll find out REALLY FAST how to play/bet etc.

Technically we're talking about two topics.
1. Do you know how to bet to be profitable for you? Pretty much betting systems, find one that works for you. For example, we could decide to use MP's $204 across system, but that leads into the second topic.

2. Can you follow execute the betting system? If you get encounter like 3 PSO's in a row, we'll be down $612, can you still stick with the system?

Both issues are equally important, but it sounds like Bandit just needs a simple enough system that doesn't require too much thought for when he is shooting so he can concentrate on his toss meanwhile getting paid off for his rolls and increasing his profits on longer hands.

I went back and read Bandits original post and you're correct pappy. Personally I feel you are probably doing the right thing Bandit. I don't know what your bankroll is but if you continue to slowly grow it the betting will come to you in time.

pappyvanwinkle wrote: mentally I know what the next press move to take before the dice are even tossed.

It's kinda like playing chess and thinking several moves ahead into the future based on a If..Then. I enjoy making game of it. What can I say? I'm easily entertained.

What a difference a week makes and the suggestions and comments from this forum!

Today went back to Charlestown, $500 buy.
Got the dice twice- 2 hands of 20- first hand was all over the place, very few repeaters.
Second hand settled down- hammered the 6/8 and rolled with $400
I bet on myself and it felt really good, knowing that "I can do this" and the results show. Thank you to everyone that commented and offered suggestions on how to put it all together!

Way to go Bandit, sorry i couldn't join you to cheer you on today, hopefully next time. Youre inspiring this newbe to " put it all together "

Congrats Bandit!

So, you were able to find a good balance between concentrating on your shooting, and a betting system that didn't cause you to get distracted?

Keep it up, remember consistency is the key

Pappy

Nice work!