Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

I have been trying out a a dark side system and was wanting some input. The system is fairly simple. You start with a session bankroll that is no less than 100 units of whatever size unit you deem comfortable and preferably have a session bankroll of 200+ units. You then bypass the comeout roll and once a point has been established you place a two unit DC bet. You let this bet go until it is resolved. If you win you take your winnings and repeat the process. If you lose you increase the DC bet by one unit. At this point if you win that bet you regress your bet back to the initial two units and if you lose you up your bet to four units. You continue to increase your bet by one units on a loss and regress your bet by one unit on a win. When I have been playing this on online simulators and with my small layout randomly tossing the dice at home I have been finding a comfortable/fairly consistently obtainable win goal is 20 units.

Another rule that I have found to be very useful with this system is that you are only wanting to win five units at a time before regressing to the minimum bet regardless of the amount of units last wagered. So lets assume I am using $5 dollar units and buy in for $500 (100 units). After winning the 15th bet of the session the DC bet I should be placing if I am simply going up one unit on a loss and down one on a win would be $25 but I see after collecting the winnings for that bet that I have $525 in my rack. In this instance the bet placed should only be $10 because you regress to the minimum 2 unit bet after every five unit won. This rule would hold true for every additional five unit milestone ($550, $575, $600, etc).

Another rule that I have found useful to put in place while playing this system has been don't lose more than X number of bets (usually 3) to any one shooter. Two other rules that I have toyed around with are parlaying all crap numbers and to press the bet one unit on a win if the last bet was the minimum two unit wager and continuing to do so unit a loss or the bet reaches 5 units at which point I regress to 3 units and repeat the process.

I appreciate all constructive feedback greatly.

I don't think it's an entirely bad way to play, and I like the fact that you have "rules." I would, perhaps, add a few of my own.

First off, I'd put a qualifier on when I'd bet beyond just waiting until the point is established then betting the DC. I'd want to see a couple of decisions before that to get an idea of the trend at the table. No, not everyone around here believes in trends. It just happens that I do. Whether they are of any use or not is another question, but let's move past that for now. It's important to chart a few shooters before jumping in.

We used to have a guy here who went by the handle wwwww. He passed away a few years back, but if you search for his old posts you'll find him talking about his 3 capping strategy. Bone up on it and see what you think.

Next, I have no problem with a negative progression as long as you cap the number of times you'll chase a loss before re-setting. But I much prefer a fibonacci type progression. Instead of betting 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 like you're doing (winning that 4 unit bet still leaves you down one unit) I'd consider 2 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 10. That's a five bet spread. If you lose the first 2 unit bet you come back with another one. That will get you even if you win it and you start back with another 2 unit bet. If you lose that second 2 unit bet you make a 4 unit bet, which will also get you back to even if you win it. Now, the key to a fibonacci progression is to make the same size wager on a win. Don't regress yet. So if you win that 4 unit bet you come back with another 4 unit bet. Win two in a row and you are 4 units up. THEN you regress back to the initial 2 unit bet. For me it just seems more logical, but it's your call.

On limiting your number of losses per shooter - a good darksider will limit it to one come out loss. So if you lose your DC bet to a shooter PSO then you don't re-bet on him. If you get up on a number with your DC and he knocks it off you do not make another DC bet. You're just going to grind out one bet per shooter.

By the way, I like to parlay DP and DC wins given the opportunity. I would probably be dollars ahead if I did NOT parlay them, but it brings a little excitement to the dark side when you do it - and Lord knows we need it.

wwwww's handle was wolfbyte on this incarnation of the forum. Here's a link that will take you to every post he ever made on the forum. He was a bit off the deep end sometimes, but he was great at coming up with spin-offs of systems, testing them, then taking them to the casino and winning with them. search.php?author_id=225&sr=posts

. "Short hands are more expected than long hands." There is more truth in an expectoration than an expectation.

One was where he supposedly had some huge win, then mentioned that he stood in line at Walmart for three days to save $60 on a TV. The other was where he claimed to have a method that would win $200 dollars per hour, then posted that he was going to take an 11 hour bus ride from central CA to Vegas to save $200 over flying, when the flight takes an hour and 15 minutes.

What you describe is a great example of an individual with a utilitarian personality type. I know, because I suffer from the same "mental illness." Loosely translated - a person with a utilitarian personality is a "cheap bastard." For a guy who was unemployed (as I recall wwwwwww was on permanent disability), I suspect it was all in a day's work. But who knows. Since he's no longer with us I don't guess we'll ever know for sure. However, I did enjoy his flat-tooth earth-bound 1.5 volt human battery posts. I like to think that he's out there somewhere - plugged into the matrix even now.

I use a different method for negative progressions.

Example: First session. My losing progression is $10-20-30. 3 losses and I drop back to minimum bet until I get a win. Session loss limit $200.00. If the session is a partial or total loss the next session I'll bet $20-40-60. Session loss limit $400. The most important part in my opinion is to keep track of your previous losses and drop back down to the lowest level as soon as you recoup the previous losses.

If you're more of an action junkie you can start pressing a little after 2 wins in a row to take advantage of runs. This is the way I bet blackjack also as it's good cover for counting and you just press more aggressively when the count is favorable.

This is the way I bet blackjack also as it's good cover for counting and you just press more aggressively when the count is favorable.

Agreed! Back when I was playing a lot of blackjack I ran a small negative progression on losses. When the deck composition was in my favor I'd throw out a much bigger bet while slapping the table with my free hand and announcing that it was a "get back bet." They I'd slap the table as the cards were dealt calling for the dealer to "slap me an ace." From the casino's POV you're just another drunk chasing his losses.

I frequently play a fibbonacci on the Don'ts - on flat bets. From time to time I'll feel like gambling and I'll use it as a free odds progression on the right side. Think: $10 - 10 - 20 - 30 - 50 - 80 - 130 - 210 - 440 - 650 . . . personally I'd never go beyond $130.

Whenever you're playing the fibo you are looking for two consecutive wins. So if you win at one level you make the SAME BET on the next hand. If you win two in a row - great. If not then feel free to continue from where you left off. Like all strategies, it's great when it works. When it doesn't work it's a nut buster.

tgparker wrote:This is a learning and education project for me. Would this be anything that I could follow, tweak, kludge, and program using WinCraps or WinCraps Pro? Do you have an existing *.bet file that you could let me have a look at? I have all the WinCraps and WinCraps Pro automated betting scripts. Would one of them be useful for this?

There is a WinCraps betting script called "Fibonacci progression" on the WinCraps Website.
http://www.cloudcitysoftware.com/fibonacci.bet

I think this betting script is a "Line Pass" rather than a "Don't Come" script but it still uses a Fibonacci progression.
Is that relevant or do you have something better that I could have a look at please?

Thanks in advance,

TG

I was browsing recently and saw your post here so I decided to add a modified fibonacci bet file on my web site. It allows you to play the fibonacci as a win progression or a loss progression on either Passline or Don't Pass bets and includes win goals, loss limits, and multiple sessions. The script will prompt you for all necessary inputs.

http://www.cloudcitysoftware.com/fibonacci2.bet>

Have fun!
Steen

Good to see you visiting the forum, Steen. Come back anytime.

tgparker wrote: One of my goals is to become good enough at writing WinCraps code so that I can model and evaluate some of the various Craps systems, methods, techniques that I am encountering on these forums, and in the various Craps books.

A worthy goal in my opinion. There's always more that can be learned than just the EV of the various bets.

Depending on your programming experience you may find the aforementioned script to be a bit busy. It includes code that queries for inputs and plays a number of different ways. But it's not a requirement to include such things. You can keep it simple and give each script a single-purpose.

Steen

heavy wrote:Good to see you visiting the forum, Steen. Come back anytime.

Thanks Heavy, will do.

just finished his book about a month ago, been using his passline progression play, been working ok, really showed me my lack of discipline in certain areas. Will start to work on some of his darkside play here soon as that is definitely an area for improvement. over all he has very solid plays if you stick to what he ask you to do and not monkey with them ( pun intended) the money management is an absolute must. Wiremonkey

Save yourself time and money. War game your ideas on the Wizard's Craps game:

https://wizardofodds.com/play/craps/v2/

Just wondering if anyone has tried any of Grafstein's plays on electronic Craps. Not really sure how the electronic Craps thing works so maybe the max bet would be too low to try systems. Just curious if anyone has tried it and what they found? Thanks!

I agree with you flextimeLV,

That's what i do every day on the wizards of odds site.


Beat his brain for fun every day., with my system of SRR OF 3 and SRR of 2.

Jaime 1943-------73 on dec---29 2016.

Jaime- have you posted your SRR-3 and SRR-2 methods?

Yes i have, The is a long grind to win this way, but i am house bound --- so i have all the time in the world.

Come out with SRR OF 2---16 DOLLARS ON DON'T PASS LINE.

3 dollars on any seven, 1dollar on the eleven.

these machines are set up to etablish a point on the come out 80%of the times.

once the point is establish i play 5 dollars on the 5/9/10.AND 6 dollars on the 6/8 and i don't play anything on the 4.

Then i have the machine throw the dice, these machines are set up to have a SRR OF 2 OR 3, THEN THEY WILL THROW THE SEVEN.7 out.

when you reach the SRR of 2 , you take your place bets down---thats 27 dollars down. and you place 16 dollars on the point that was establish by the machine, then you have the wizards game roll the dice till it sevens out OR

makes the number that was establish.

Then you start a new game

all over again.

I know you will have questions. Lets have them.

I posted this in a way THAT YOU MUST ASK ME QUESTIONS.

Jaime1943-------73 on dec---29 2016

Com on Jamie, dollar yo and $3 any seven? If this system ever had any edge, and I can't see how it has, especially on a RNG simulator, then you are just giving all away with bad hedges.

Goodmorning lndon shooter,

DEC---22 2016.

O.K guys/gals, starting today no more $1yo and no more $3
on any seven. in the long run you will make more money .

Lets see on the short run , what happens., when the machine throws on the come out 3 sevens and 1 yo., and it will.

Jaime 1943-------73