Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

I know I should already have this answer in my head but if I ever did I can no longer access it.

Say you are at a $5 table and make a CO $100 Pass bet and a Point is established. Obviously if I wanted single odds I plop down $100 but what if I wanted less? Say $50 or even $25? Is that allowed?

Don't say I'm crazy (jury is still out on that one) and should flat bet less and use more on the odds because that's not my question. Would I have to bet a minimum of single odds or could I bet less?

Kelph

My experience is that it depends on the house. If you do bet less than single odds and it is allowed at that house then the dealer will announce something to the effect of "less than single odds". If not allowed he/she will shoot you! Odds bets have no edge for the house as you know so most will gladly let you bet less.

Like realtime, I have seen both situations. Most houses will allow it. In the situations where I have seen it done the dealer makes a statement of some kind so there is no questions about the payoff.

The one thing I have NOT seen is taking odds less then the table minimum. For example a $10 table.... $10 line bet and then attempting to take $5 in odds. I have not seen that allowed. I've seen it tried, but not allowed.

Reason for my question.

If one is betting flat both sides, P/DP and C/DC, the basic win/loss is odds based other than a CO 12.

Dealing with limited odds such as 3, 4, & 5x I'm seeking to create enough room to build an odds progression ala Krigman's Come Progression but with the odds. If you are allowed 100X odds you can but smaller allowed odds means jacking up the dual flat bets and maybe begin betting less than single odds.

If anyone has already worked on such I would be interested. Just a thought.

Kelph

I've played around with the idea but didn't get very far with it. Mostly was looking at running a fibonacci progression on odds, looking for two wins in a row then starting over with single odds. Seems like as good a concept as any.

I have actually done this at Showboat in Atlantic City and I have done it at Seneca Niagara Falls too. I bet $10 pass line and then $5 odds when the point was 4 of 10 or $6 when it was 5 or 9. I asked the dealer if that was OK before I put the bet down and they didn't have any problem with it. Of course this was on a random roller, where I wasn't very confident in their ability to hit the point, but I just wanted a little more action. I would agree with everyone else that "normally" most casino's wouldn't let you do this less then the table minimum, but you can get away with it some times.

$nakeeye$,

Sure one can use the Converted Come Bet or Morgan Modified. Of course by doing so you've voluntarily given up the Place bet advantage of payoff on first hit and made it a required two hit (like a Come) for a pay off and a lower one at that.

Just to be clear I'm saying bet both sides in equal amounts. 2, 3, 7 or 11 have no affect. Only the 12 will kill the CO Pass or CO Come portion of the bet. CO 7s are a wash on established Come bets due to the mirroring flat DC bets and odds are returned to you.

The only actual benefit is you're paid off in true odds and depending on the amount of odds it may make some difference. Come bets ease one out onto the felt in a slower and more controlled fashion. In theory using the Converted Come would do the same but my experience watching Place bettors is that they move faster and risk more faster covering more numbers. Sometimes I see no logical reason for the plays being made other than to cover as much as possible so as not to miss any winning throw if they occur. The Converted Come player would require a lot of self discipline.

We are on two sides of the same coin. You're suggesting playing place bets more like a Come bet and I'm saying play the Come more like the Place bets. In both case something is gained and lost.

I'm just not sure enough is gained in either method to make the effort at the tables worth it.

Kelph

I finally retread the original question and would think if it is a $5 minimum table you should be able to take $50 odds. I have seen some $5 minimum tables that let me take less that $5 odds and other times have had some casinos say odds have to be at least minimum table.

I can't think of many times I would want to play less that minimum odds since there is no house advantage on the odds.

noah

I think that if I lived in a casino town that had several properties that offered 100X odds (like Shreveport/Bossier) I could fare quite well with the doey-don't and either laying or taking odds, as the table dictated. All you need is the right game and sufficient bankroll to run the odds progression of your choice.