Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

So your spread tries to capture the minute nuances of the wheel that lead to a repeating number by clustering the bets around the number on the wheel, not the numbers on the table. Clever.

Regards,
heahhmb

Heavy,

You got me interested in your roulette spread posting, so I looked at the American wheel and put all the numbers into a spreadsheet. The number position on the wheel is very well thought out. But it is also developed that way to confuse the bettor. If the wheel and table were in the same order, it might be a whole lot easier to detect consistent ball drop locations.

My task was then to build a list of numbers in wheel order, along with the 5 spread numbers, then sort that list by the target numbers.

When you add the 5 number spreads to each position number, some interesting patterns emerge. I started at 00 and created a 5 number spread, then moved counter clockwise and did the same for 1, followed by 13, and so on around the wheel until I got back to 00.

# 5 # spreads -- I started at the #, went clockwise 2 positions, then worked counterclockwise, entering the 5 sequential numbers
00 - 10,27,00, 1,13
1 - 27,00, 1,13,36
13 - 00, 1,13,36,24
...

When you build the list that way, you see for each new number, a new spread # enters on the right and the oldest on the left gets dropped off.
In the above fragment, 13 is at the right and for each new spread, it moves one position left, until it finally gets dropped out of the spread.

Next, I sorted the entire list by the position number, so the list came out 00, 0, 1, 2, ... 36

A different pattern emerged. The numbers in the spread got sorted along with the target number. The spread numbers started lining up in numerical order, as well, and I'll only list 5 numbers:

# 5 # spreads sorted in order by target #
1 - 27,00, 1,13,36
2 - 28, 0, 2,14,35
3 - 36,24, 3,15,34
4 - 35,23, 4,16,33
5 - 34,22, 5,17,32
...

The pattern of ascending and descending sequences for each column of spread numbers was not expected. It is interesting.

I am assuming that there are not many European wheels in the US. Therefore, it is probably not worth my time to work out the European spreads.

So the little clue that you posted about the difference in 5 number spreads between European and American tables got me to wondering about whether your Xploitation system works for both European and American wheels? Or would I have to convert European to American? Your clue doesn't answer that question.

Regards,
heahhmb

I would recommend the book "The Roulette Formula" by Kimo Li. It'll help you memorize the numbers next door to any number or even entire 6-number sectors. He breaks down the pattern on the wheel in relation to the layout. This one is for the American wheel, but he has one for the European wheel as well.

I use to play roulette and found the book very useful in quickly placing bets without having to reference a roulette scorecard.

So the little clue that you posted about the difference in 5 number spreads between European and American tables got me to wondering about whether your Xploitation system works for both European and American wheels? Or would I have to convert European to American? Your clue doesn't answer that question.

Yes, we break it down by American Wheel and European Wheel. We also spread five numbers and seven numbers (for those who want a larger slice of the pie).

We break the strategy down for both live roulette and air-ball (electronic) roulette - and in particular for the Inter-Block roulette machine.

Back in the day when I first started wheel sectoring my play was typically to bet six bucks - a five number spread with a buck piggybacked on the center number in the spread for the dealer. If he could not hit my sector in a few attempts then the tokes stopped until the next dealer came on - then I'd give the dealer another shot. It helped ferret out who could and could not steer the ball.

Good roulette discussion this. We should split it up into a more meaningfully titled thread

Yeah, it did kind of get off topic . . . I'll see if I can sort it out later today (No promises - it's the weekend. Then again, every day is the weekend when you're retired).

About 15 years ago, I spent quite a bit of time analyzing the American wheel. Partly because of my fascination for how the numbers were spaced and partly for how I saw trends occurring which lead me to seek if there was any interesting correlations. One observation was that the column 3 numbers (3, 6, 9, .....) were closer together than the overall; likewise Col 2 numbers were also slightly closer grouping, whereas Col 1 (1,4,7....) were more equally spaced around the wheel. This lead me to a strategy of only betting column 3, which seemed to work more times than not. My thinking was if those numbers wee closer together that it was more likely to hit one of them more often. I'm sure Irish would rightfully cite confirmation bias as the sample size is too small to be relevant and there's other variables like the ball & wheel velocity and the dealers, etc. Regardless, makes me think I was on the right track, ciao, D.N8r

Dealer tip in middle of a spread is definitely worth a go. I did this a PH on last trip. Asked dealer what his lucky number was and then put up a two way bet and covered 3 numbers either side for my spread. Worked quite well - he was on old time roulette dealer who may well have been able to do a bit or steering. Oh maybe he just got lucky. Either way it was a lot of fun for 20 mins until the next dealer came in. Tried the same and it bore no fruit

I'm kinda new to playing roulette as a secondary game to "thee only game" in the casino.

Do you guys think the dealers at the deep pocket wheels have a better chance at hitting their numbers?

I've nicknamed the 2nd shift dealer at my favorite place for a great red lager "Mister Impossible". One evening a buddy and I walked by a wheel while Mr. Imp. seemed to be dealing without any players. I stopped and asked if he was practicing hitting certain numbers. He said, "that's impossible" smiling all the while. I asked him to try to hit the 0. He didn't say a word... pushed the wheel with enough force to get his desired speed, held the ball in position, and when the time was right he let 'er rip. About two times around the wheel he grabbed the ball and repeated the step just mentioned. (We had no money down so I guess he could do that.) The ball landed, we were amazed, he just smiled and said, "Impossible."

I've also noticed different sized white balls in cups at some tables. Is this a coincidence or is there something to that?

And the same thing is said about DI. It's all a random game and therefore impossible.

Do you guys think the dealers at the deep pocket wheels have a better chance at hitting their numbers?

Now we're talking about the difference in what I'll call "old school" wheels and the new generation. Old school wheels didn't really have "pockets." They had wire between the numbers. The wire was secured to the wheel so it wouldn't come loose, but it was just enough of a barrier to keep the ball in one tray or another. As new wheels were developed the game designers looked for better ways to randomize the roll. They did that with larger "fins" that replaced the wire separators. When the ball hits one of those fins it gets slapped around on the wheel and can end in another sector. To that end, I think that you're calling "deep pocket" wheels are new generation and they do a better job of randomizing the spin than the old ones.

Yeah, I've seen dealers do similar "hit the number" tricks. There used to be a dealer over in Shreveport who was very good at it. Then he made the mistake of demonstrating his skill to one of his supervisors. He was promptly fired because the casinos are always concerned that skilled dealers will conspire with player friends to hit the casino then split the profits later.

The thing I've mentioned on the forum before regarding the electronic (air ball) machines is that they operate much the same as a slot machine. If you are playing a Wheel of Fortune machine and it lands on a SPIN you are instructed to look up and push the button to spin the wheel and see how much you've won. But the machine has already made the decision on how much you've won. The rest is just theatrics.

When the air ball machine says "no more bets" and launches the ball the machine has already decided which number is going to win. It steers the ball to a specific tray with a combination of air pressure, speed brakes, and magnets. The marble going round and round and landing in a numbered tray is simply for show.

If you play any slot machine long enough you will see repeating patterns. You can't really capitalize on them unless you recognize that the machine is not going to hit for another 2000 spins and walk away. With the air ball machine, though, if you track the roll results long enough you'll see repeating patterns that often can be exploited. Just as some dealers in live games have a "signature," so do many of the machines.

DarthNater wrote:About 15 years ago, I spent quite a bit of time analyzing the American wheel. Partly because of my fascination for how the numbers were spaced and partly for how I saw trends occurring which lead me to seek if there was any interesting correlations. One observation was that the column 3 numbers (3, 6, 9, .....) were closer together than the overall; ... D.N8r

You are correct. And a very good observation. All but 2 of the numbers that are multiples of 3 are on one side of the wheel, between the 33 and 34 on the half that includes the 00. The 9 and 30 are on the opposite side of the wheel, close to the 0. Clusters: 33, 21, 6, 18 appear together, and 36, 24, 3, 15 appear on the other half of the semi-circle, just before the 34. The 12 and 27 are equally spaced between the other two groupings on this half of the wheel.

On the American wheel, for every odd number, the next higher even number is directly opposite it ( or close to 180 degrees apart). An imaginary line drawn between the two numbers divides the wheel into two semi-circles. One semi-circle contains the 00 and the other contains the 0. On the 00 side of the 33-34 semi-circle and close to the 00 is the 25. Directly opposite to it is 26. The 9 and 30 are found on either side of the 26.

These arrangements should pay off if there is any variance or bias towards that half of the wheel, or you perceive a pattern involving the 3x multiples.

Thanks for sharing that nugget and may the force bend to your will.
heahhmb