Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Partial excerpt from my Stratocasterman Trip Reports
viewtopic.php?f=5&p=71626#p71626
Tuesday September 26, 2017

YES, YOU HEARD ME CORRECTLY! After being a 100% Rightsider all this time, I have FINALLY, tip-toed over to the Darkside...a little! I don't know what actually possessed me to do it. Maybe it was going back and reading this entire Heavy's Wrong Way Craps thread. All that "Cowtippin" talk soaked in and tipped me over I suppose. It really made a hell of a lot of sense since I do utilize a 1-1-1-2-3-4-5-6-8-12 unit progression, parlaying a win and resetting after two wins in a row on many flat betting game scenarios.

Now that I am over my stupid fear of the Darkside, I'm not sure why I was so afraid of it? I STILL practice DI and am adopting a combination or "parallel" Right and Dark game strategy when I toss. Otherwise, I have seen the "dark"!

I think the real kicker here, for me, was that I spent several weeks at the table in "VIEWER" mode. NO BETTING...never even bought in for a single Peso! I charted and observed player after player, roll after roll, decision after decision, different player styles, exercises in setting the dice and BETTING/RACK Amounts. I have seen a FEW DIs and tons of RRs. For the most part, approximately 80% of the players at the table are "regulars", or have been to the table more than once since I began my "viewing".

What was really fascinating was actually noticing all the regular, day to day "stuff", that I really never picked up on before! The amount of information I SAW that I never really noticed or realized before was kind of staggering. It surely put things in a different perspective for me. I feel like I NOW know the things to look for. I do realize that most of this is nothing new and has been told here on this great forum, time and time again. BUT, until I actually sat down and focused on these indicators alone, without focusing on my own betting and toss, was I able to see the "dark".

With this particular scenario/players over several weeks, eternal optimism continually made large regular donations to the house, betting nothing but the Rightside. Why in the hell would you want to play the Rightside without some sort of edge? Makes NO sense! As a DI, I sometimes have enough of an edge but, not all the time.

I also have made an acquaintance with one of the Box guys. I actually had met him before, as he also does training for the new dealers. Naturally, being nearly the only American (white guy) here, any Filipino who has ever been to, or has some ties to the U.S., will talk to you and want to know where you are from and chit-chat. Well, this too has become a wealth of information on the action at the table. Basically, he confirms about everything I see.

And just in case you weren't aware of how observant the house is and NOT to toot my own horn but, he said to me, "I have seen you throw a few times before and other dealers agree that you are much better than anyone here. Do you always play the Pass"? I said, "well, yes, 99% of the time but, I think I am going to change that philosophy to the Darkside". He said, and I double quote, ""Play the Dark Michael"". It kinda freaked me out some thinkin' Big Brother is watching me! Then I realized, WTF are you thinkin"? They are watching EVERYTHING! WAKE UP!

Make any sense? Thoughts?

I suppose we will see if my win ratios/BR increase...

Good f'n work! I too tracked many rolls, many outcomes. There are good suggestions on the forum for darkside play. I have my own way..which is a combo of a few on the board here plus Dice Trakkr's suggestions. IMO it is a rare thing for a strictly right side player to do what you did. I have talked to right side players at the table who would never go dark. They say a combination of things like.."You're playing against me..You're betting more to get less..I just would never do that because it's bad karma.." All BS. We know from Irish and others what the average roll is. I made a youtube video on beating the chop long ago. It is a poorly made video, but it shows the idea of playing both sides to get a win. Good work on your part. Ain't education a wonderful thing??

Ditto. A huge step in the right direction. As long as you follow simple rules like one loss per shooter you'll do fine.

Over a couple of decades of play I've migrated from mostly rightside play to mostly Don't Pass. Sometimes Don't Come.

I became a committed follower of Dylanfreak methods a few years back: one loss only per shooter and lots of patience.

I occasionally get a wild hair and jump on the rightside, but the long money hands are few and far between.

On the darkside I typically win more sessions than I lose. Not as exciting, but fun to win.

6dollar6

thnick, Heavy & 6dollar6...thanks for the encouragement!

Michael Corleone, Anakin Skywalker, Justin Bieber .... Once you go to the dark side, you can never go back.

Strat,
Once you start down the darkside, it will dominate your destiny......you'll learn the true power of the Force............

D.N8r

Visualize the flow of "THE GAME" as proceeding along the face of a clock.....
.
Were DO ( Bright ) Side results recorded ( TRACKED ) Clockwise
and

Do Not ( DARK-SIDE ) results recorded ( TRACKED ) Counter Clockwise
WAGER DECISIONS may become more-so more clear.....

Incorporate "Clock Face momentum ( DIRECTION ) in your observation(s)
BOTH
prior to placing your $ U S D at risk
AND
while deciding ENTRY / EGRESS ( Exit )
>
When you note directional change from Do to Do Not
you may elect to HALT....
>>
You could elect to TRANSITION to catch A TREND should such be perceived...
Those who TRANSITION*
may choose to reduce the opportunity to enrich the casino
and
CASH OUT with some profit or preserve surviving Buy In / Bank Roll
for another future Craps Table Adventure .....
*
When you change direction from Do ( Bright ) Side to DO NOT ( DARK ) Side
( or DARK SIDE to DO SIDE )
and
THE Trend if Directional Flow (REVERSES ) changes back to the starting point.....

CASH OUT
AND
take a break.....

just me saying
W C

Yep, what wild child said. It seems to work at least for me.

Great info WC & mssthis1!

Yep, like stratocasterman, this young Padawan has been embracing the darkside lately. I have been primarily a right side player and only the last two years I've begun playing the darkside. Still a lot more for me to learn and to break some old bad habits. As WC noted, I've been mostly playing the trends (Hot/Cold/Choppy) by identifying the particular tables through charting and observation. It is amazing how a series of hands sometimes show only one point being made per shooter with the average rolls being under 10. I'll bypass the come-out and go right to flat betting the DC. Sometimes you just tread water until its your time to shoot, but many times you can grind out small wins. Over time, those small wins can add up.

BD,
So you mixing darkside with shooting by the stick or you still camping straight out? D.N8r

"COWTIPPIN"

DarthNater wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:37 pm BD,
So you mixing darkside with shooting by the stick or you still camping straight out? D.N8r

D.N8r, I'm still camping SO. I still like to shoot rightside when I have the dice. I'll bet darkside on the randies depending on the recent table trend or unless I'm having a shitty toss that day. I find from SO the toss and body movement much more comfortable for me. (It's easier to toss chips on the DC too). I've been practicing from SL1, I just haven't pursued it in live play. I'll be all ears in November regarding darkside play and I plan to shoot occasionally from SL during my private live play sessions. For the Crapsfest live sessions I'll shoot from whichever position the coaches assign me.

It's taken me several years to develop the "I don't give a shite" attitude needed to play darkside with rightside players. It used to bother me how I perceived how others perceived my play (yeah, read that sentence carefully again). You know, the crap between the ears kind of stuff. Now I have developed callouses where those feelings used to be. My attitude now is "You play your game, I'll play mine. It ain't your money I'm betting." I still struggle with it from time to time. I'm getting better at reading tables (cold/hot/choppy) and try to follow the trend as best I can. I'll transition my game at the tables with little rules I've developed and also copied from our more illustrious APC forum members. So far, it seems to serve me well.

Is there a distinct advantage shooting by stick when playing the darkside? Or, is it just better to be as close to the backwall for any kind of toss?

Personal preference for shooting SR1or SL1 is what it is all about. I usually shoot from the rightside when getting the dice to see if I can catch some lighting bolts.
If table population is only 1 or 2 I will shoot dark, cuz I can get the dice back quick. I will also shoot when a palpable dark cloud has descended over the table and it is dumping 7's as losers. Tables can and do dump. Just gotta be there at the right tine with the right play.

Good Luck

BD,

Re your question..........."Is there a distinct advantage shooting by stick when playing the darkside? Or, is it just better to be as close to the backwall for any kind of toss?"

CLoser is better - at least for me. I think there is a stronger advantage to toss it 6 feet vice 12 feet regardless of right side or darkside. While you're solid from straight out, I think its still about consistency and minimizing variance. Using one of my favorite golfing analogies.... would you rather have a 6 foot putt or a 12 foot putt with $100 on the line? Ok, now which is more possible to do: make ten 6 footers in a row, or ten 12 footers in a row for the same $100? How about for $1000? While it might boil down to that stuff between your ears - you might also just have a miss on one of those ten tries...... despite your best efforts.....

D.N8r

Though I practice from 12ft as part of my routine at home, I still cannot get it in my head that one would have
any influence on the dice from that distance. They come down harder, there is more kinetic energy inherent in a
longer throw..defies logic that dice which are hard enough to keep manageable at a short distance would be influenced
to produce numbers defined by a certain dice set. Yeah..I've seen straight out shooters shoot long hands. Played next to a woman shooting from straight out who set railroad sixes and threw around 20 5s in a monster hand. Variance is a crazy lover and a killer. Kinda like life.

I've seen several straight out shooters, years ago, watched Soft Touch hammer TI from out there and got some good advice on how to approach things. I've seen BD several times have super hands from the end; but also seen him do well next to the stick, hence my earlier question. His grip and set up are really good and think with a little bonetracking to dial in a good set that he'd be deadly.

Ciao, brah, D.N8r