Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

My old buddy Shootitall is, if nothing else, a sucker for hardway bets. Yeah, I've seen a few guys who love them more than him - but not many.

Before we get too deep into the hardway discussion let's just take a moment to talk about the odds.

The true odds of the Hard Six or Eight are 10:1 but the payoff is only 9:1. That gives the casino a 9% edge.

The true odds on the Hard Four and Hard Ten are 8:1 but the payoff is only 7:1. That gives the casino a 11% edge.

Since the Hard 6 or 8 rolls only one way each and the hard four and ten only roll one way each why are the odds different? Because there are four ways each to roll an EASY six or eight and only two ways each to roll an EASY four or ten. Remember, the hardway bet LOSES when that number bet rolls easy - or when the seven rolls.

To further confuse the issue, you have the Two and Twelve, which can be bet individually or as a "High-Low" wager. It pays $30 to $1, but the True Odds are $35 - $1. That gives the casino around a 17% edge. So whey the difference in payouts on the Two or Twelve versus the Hardways, since all of these numbers has only a 1 in 36 chance of rolling? Because the Two and Twelve are one roll bets while the Hardway wagers stay up until they lose as outlined above.

Okay, that's a basic explanation of hardway bets. Now let's talk about how you bet them.

My personal play is to NOT bet them until I see any number roll hard. While this is not a scientific approach - every hand that is loaded with hardways starts with a single hard number rolling. If nothing else, I find that having "rules" help with money management when making high-vig wagers. The exception to this rule - if the point is an even number and I am going to make a dealer bet as a toke - odds are I'll place a hardway bet on the point for the boys.

I like to start out with $1 each on all of the hardways. If a hardway gets knocked off once I will replace it one time. The second time it gets knocked off it does not get replaced UNLESS I score a win on one of the other hardways.

On the first hit on any hardway number I parlay that hit. A $1 Hard six or eight goes to $10. A $1 Hard four or ten goes to $8.

On the second hit on the six or eight I'm paid $90. My move is to lock up $75 and press the number that hit to $25.

On the second hit on the four or ten I'm paid $56. I lock up $33 and press to $25.

Now I'm in "fat city." Odds are I'll just take the next hit and not press. Let's say that happens. I lock up $200 and same bet on the six or eight. I lock up $175 and same bet on the four or ten.

Now what happens if one of my pressed hadways rolls AGAIN? You'll hear me say something like "son of a bitch" because I'm pissed that I didn't press to $100 on the last hit. Then if it was a six or eight that rolled I'll press to $100 and lock up $125. On the four or ten I'll do the same, but only lock up $100. Now we're really positioned to win.

It's rare that I ever get beyond the $100 level on any hardway. I just keep thinking about those easy way number rolling and knocking me off. For THAT reason you MAY see me pressing my Place bets up on a hardway rich hand - not only because they are winning - but a $90 six or eight pretty much perfectly hedges a $100 hard six or eight. Make sense?

Okay, we all have our own approaches to hardway betting. I even saw a guy do a regression on a hardway last week - starting out with $100 on the hard six and eight and regressing to $25 each when one of them hit. Smart man.

One of my LEAST favorite hardway plays is placing a hardway bet as a hedge when playing the Don'ts. I know of no better way for me (personally) to guarantee that if the shooter makes his point it will roll easy. I'm still smarting from the $100 hard four I had hedging a $1000 Lay bet that rolled easy, and that was almost fifteen years ago. Lessons learned . . .

What's your approach to the hardways. Let's figure out how we're going to approach them for 2018.

Ok ill go first this play is called old school operator why its because its the way I play 90 percent of the time the only difference is the amount bet due to table warmth.
on a warm to hot table 5 dollar 6&8 working on come out 10 dollar passline.Once point is esbalished if 6 or 8 come easy press once to 24 go same bet always replace falling hardway .When I hardway hits parlay period never go same bet never increase by one unit be a man and gamble.
This can be made better 5 dollar 6&8 working 10 dollar passline lets say a 5 is the point lets say the 6 hit easy drop four dollars go to 30 next hit easy 6 pays 35 replace hard way its up to you now that 6 is paid for and self propelling.Hey operator what if youget a hard 6 now easy 6 goes to 60 hard six is parlay to 50.Lets say it rolled easy this happens a lot ok you got payed 70 toss out a hard 6 for ten don't give up never surrender.
Ok low rollers deal yes when losing one hundred I drop to this one dollar six and 8 working 5 dollar pass no odds 6 dollar six and eight first hit press same as above. A100 dollar win is a 100 dollar win although 500 is a lot better and sends me home.

Great topic. I am still looking for a good hardway strategy. A way to limit the BR exposure to these high HA bets and still be able to profit from them. My typical HW play is to bet $1 hard six and eight. I parlay first hit, second hit I collect, press that bet by 1 unit, and drop $10 for the dealer's toke box. This play has been more or less an entertainment bet, I haven't taken it that seriously.

I've seen sessions where the HW bettors are making the money, whereas the place bettors are grinding for their profit. I figure it is time to take a closer look at HW betting to see if it is a viable tool at the tables. As Heavy asked,

"What's your approach to the hardways? Let's figure out how we're going to approach them for 2018."

Here’s how I like it. When I play hardways I only go up on 4&10. 4$ each instead of placing em. First hit go 21 on the box number that hits and collect 8. Then go half parley.

I also never throw more then $1 on each, and only when I feel they are showing. I do usually always have the hard 4 though.

I have never done this but I was thinking of trying it in Vegas when the field numbers were showing, and since the 12 pays triple. Since I always have the 6 and the 8, and many times the 5, I was thinking of putting $5 on the field, press the first hit and then come down. I turned my $5 into $20. I would then throw $5 on each hard way. All the hard ways covered for $5.

If the hardways are not showing, but field numbers are, I was thinking of doing the same thing to get myself a $20 4......once in a while. If you are fortunate enough to hit the 12 after the press, you can buy the 4 and 10.

I have used the field to try and feed HW bets in the past. I'll start out with $1 on the HWs and then use field bet winnings to press them up gradually. The occasional extra payouts on 2 and 12 though I will always harvest.

Starting at 4$, I often get 60-80$ back from a good hand. It’s been making good runs for me. The idea is to use it to place the box for cheap,...then what ever it pays is a bonus. 1$ you need to parlay and can’t make another move on first hit. Then on a easy number you lose the bet.

I go 4$, on a hit I take 20$ buy on it, if it hits again easy i still get paid 39$, hard I get 71$ on second hit and progress bets.

Say you take 6&8 for 12$ each, and h4&h10 for 4$ each.
It comes 3-5,5-5,1-2,6-4,6-2,3-4. Common hand...6 throws. My plan, it cost me 35$, grabbed 35$,8$&39$ collects for 47$ profits on a average hand.