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Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm
by Irukanji
If you are placing the 6 & 8 for $12 each, which way would you go if you wanted to eventually get the two other outside numbers going? Would you :
A: 6 & 8 go up on first hit to $18 each then place 5 & 9 for$10 each on second hit and rack the $1 then go on from there?
or
B: Place the 5 for $10 on first hit then place the 9 for $10 on the second hit then go on from there?
Build up then out? Or build out then up?
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:35 am
by dork
I'd use Plan B; $10 5 on the first hit and then bet the nine on the next hit. Th'only reason I'd prefer that is with the 5/6/8 covered, half the boxes are filled giving me one more chance to get a paying hit. I know that statistically the favorites are the 6 & 8, but if the 5 hits "empty" I'll have missed a chance, and with a $10 5, if any of the 3 numbers hit, I'll have the same resulting $44 Inside that I would have had with Plan A in the same number of rolls, and without allowing a possibility of "squandering" a hit on a theoretically empty box.
Also, with Plan A, when the 5/9 are filled @ $10 each, you'll have $44 Inside with $3 in the rack. With Plan B, you have $44 Inside with $8 in the rack.
Mafmajically the statistical averages for hitting the 5 may not hold water, but it's
my logic...
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:11 pm
by heavy
I prefer to think of it somewhat differently. Let's take a pseudo-mathematical approach. Let's start with your $18 six and eight. You don't really want to press off of those until they're paid for, so you are looking at scoring three hits on the six and eight before moving out to the five and nine. But do you WANT to move out to the five and nine if you've just had three hits on the six and eight? Depends on whether it happened over the course of a dozen rolls or just three or four. Depends on whether or not the five and nine have even "earned" the right to be bet by being rolled (that's the pseudo-math part). You see, like Grafstein, I believe you only bet on a winning horse. If the six and eight are winning for you - screw the five and nine. However, if you've seen a couple of fives or nines over the course of the last six rolls or so then by all means bet them. And yes, you can take additional money out of your rack to do so. OR you might want to tell the dealer to "make my bets look like $34 inside - high on the six and eight." You'll get a $12 six and eight and a $5 five and nine and $2 change. Don't want to rack the $2 ? What the heck. Toss out a buck each on the hard four and hard ten. Now you have all the numberes covered.
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:48 pm
by dork
heavy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:11 pm
I prefer to think of it somewhat differently. Let's take a pseudo-mathematical approach. Let's start with your $18 six and eight. You don't really want to press off of those until they're paid for, so you are looking at scoring three hits on the six and eight before moving out to the five and nine. But do you WANT to move out to the five and nine if you've just had three hits on the six and eight? Depends on whether it happened over the course of a dozen rolls or just three or four. Depends on whether or not the five and nine have even "earned" the right to be bet by being rolled (that's the pseudo-math part). You see, like Grafstein, I believe you only bet on a winning horse. If the six and eight are winning for you - screw the five and nine. However, if you've seen a couple of fives or nines over the course of the last six rolls or so then by all means bet them. And yes, you can take additional money out of your rack to do so. OR you might want to tell the dealer to "make my bets look like $34 inside - high on the six and eight." You'll get a $12 six and eight and a $5 five and nine and $2 change. Don't want to rack the $2 ? What the heck. Toss out a buck each on the hard four and hard ten. Now you have all the numberes covered.
Ha!
Experience.
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:59 pm
by skasower
Depends on whether or not the five and nine have even "earned" the right to be bet by being rolled (that's the pseudo-math part). You see, like Grafstein, I believe you only bet on a winning horse. If the six and eight are winning for you - screw the five and nine. However, if you've seen a couple of fives or nines over the course of the last six rolls or so then by all means bet them.
Excellent points made Heavy. At the pain of irritating Mr. Irish, I believe that even in the midst of a totally random string of tosses, there will be "lumpiness" (not a mathematical or even pseudo mathematical term). It is kind of the same as saying if you see a horn, bet a horn. Sometimes if one charts a table some interesting patterns emerge from the random distribution of tosses. Essentially, this is what we practice trying to accomplish in DI.
I had an interesting experience yesterday at Texas Station in Las Vegas where three shooters in a row paid me a couple of times for my $5 World Bet. Then, nothing and I stopped betting it. What is that? I claim it is an interesting trend within the tail of a random distribution of tosses.
skasower...aka...I know Irish is going to crush me on this one!
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:20 pm
by stratocasterman
$5 Table...If like Heavy said, "However, if you've seen a couple of fives or nines over the course of the last six rolls or so then by all means bet them."
Then, I might regress to $22 inside and rack the first hit $14. Four numbers to score two hits for a profit.
$10 Table...Agree with dork, out then up my friend!
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:52 pm
by HornHighJoe
I use to do Plan B, "Build Out then Up", and I would continue until I was Across. I'd then take one hit same bet, then use a pressing strategy for all other hits. By the time you get to the "same bet" portion you'll be ahead. Also allows you to take advantage of numbers that may be "hot" that usually are not for you. I have tried to adjust it by doing same bet for first 2 hits then spread across, but in the long run it was costing me, when rolls were so-so.
I have since abandoned this strategy and now I use Kelly criteria to make optimal size bets blah blah blah.
Re: Progressing 6&8 to all inside numbers.
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:56 pm
by DanF
I talked often about that play.
Spreading from 6&8 to 5&9. At the 10-15$ level it’s expensive overtime. But on a 5$ table...average hand gets you 150ish payment, big hands give you 400+.
Of course you aren’t going to win everytime. But, invest 15$ (6+6 then add 3$ on a win) and you are out for 22$ inside for 15$ risk, have 10/36 chance to hit instead of 6/36. I used the exact play today and got +300$ in an hour...ran to cashier with my double up!