Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Still won't let go of that "Put vigs" bone... I'm wondering about a different method of tackling the Put vig & Odds replacing a Place Bet. I know that the tipping points for the Odds bets are:

~7x-Odds on the 4/10
~5x-Odds on the 5/9
~6x-Odds on the 6/8
for the house-edge to be lower than a corresponding Place-bet or Buy-bet.

What if I've got $100 in $5 comp chips? Can I use them as Puts? The dealers say, "even money bets only". Is the vig on a comped chip different? I think I remember reading somewhere that the theoretical math says that if one recoups comp chips at ~29% you're "breaking even". That number sticks in my head, but it could be 19%... something 8 or 9..

1) Does it even make sense to save my comps and use them as "free tokens" to make the Put portion of the Put & Odds bets? That is, is it any more mathematically efficient to bet a comped Put and say, 3-4-5x Odds, for instance--"spending" the comp token as a qualifier to bet Odds?

2) Does using comp chips reduce the tipping point where the house edge over the Put & Odds corresponds to a Place or Buy bet?

Thank you.

Hmm. Maybe there's "hope", Irish. At least at the IP Biloxi; I know they'll let you bet comp chips in the DC and Come boxes. I've done that lots there.

The promo chips at the local casino they'll allow you to make any bet you want but they only pay even money.

Actually only 50% of even money. If a $25 promo chip wins here they pay you $25 and take the chip.

I always play mine on the pass or DP.

As others have noted, the coupons at Harrah's KC are the best. I've used them to place the 6/8 before and they pay proper plus convert the coupon to chips if it hits.

On my last trip to S/BC one casino would not let me use promo chips for come or dont come bets, two other casinos in town did allow it.

The Vig on a comped chip varies depending on how much you lost in order to get it. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Big O wrote: ↑Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:32 pm On my last trip to S/BC one casino would not let me use promo chips for come or dont come bets, two other casinos in town did allow it.

This happens "Not TOO infrequently" ( aka: Smart-ass brainiack snot phrase for often )
.
Pass Line ....Do Not Pass Line ,Big Six A-O K...

They are considered " Non Traveling Bets"
A number of joints allow Promo Chips and Match Play coupons
on the Field Bet.
( Paid at 1:1 all Field numbers including the TWO and THE TWELVE )
.
The COME and Do Not Come are considered TRAVELING BETS......
an by definition are defaulted out of play
and
excluded from the Promo /Match Play deal..
.ONLY GOOD FOR FLAT BET ONE TO ONE EXCHANGE ON A Win.........

( Explanation given some years back when Heck was a pup.
The policy eliminates misunderstandings /bad understandings
which may result in Energy Draining Events aka: E D E )
.
Same reason PLACE BET BOX NUMBERS ARE ALSO EXCLUDED
or Defaulted out of the Promo Chip/Match Play Deal
.................................................................................
The Promo Chips and Match Play coupons get scooped up on a loss.
.
On a Win they are paid one for one even Face Value Chip
and
Promo / Match coupon raked away............



Mostly the way it is......

just me saying
w c

Lemme raise this thread from the dead...

IP's started a new "promo" campaign to bring me back--$120/month in comp chips--I can pick them up if I bridge an overnight stay between the weekly ending/beginning dates. (I'm not intending to play just yet; just gonna function as the driver for my wife's slot-machine jones. Saving my pennies for a "coup"-- haha...) So the comp chips theoretically have no vig attached since I haven't been in the casinos since ~June. Yah, I know--that ain't completely true, but I'm up for the year, so maybe that makes it more palatable; it all depends on if these chips rope me in or if I can profit from their use...

Several months ago I broached the idea of using Puts & Odds in lieu of Place betting so's to reap the correct pure-odds payoff on "Placed" numbers, but the discussion and my education were focused on the cost of the vig on the Put. I'll check with IP to confirm, but I'm almost positive I can reduce/increase Odds on a Put bet in the Place bet mapping area so long as I accept that the Put itself is always "live" (the Odds don't have to be on the Come-Out; I confirmed that already). That feature could be important vig-wise, or "mathematically" when the ISR ploy I intend to use is considered; of course I'd have to be allowed to reduce the Odds by 3-6x (or even higher) at the point of ISR. If IP won't allow a reduction in Odds on a Put bet, then the betting scheme is toasted by the Put concept.

I'm no mathematician/statistician, but it sure seems like comped chips used to allow pure-odds (in the right amount--which could actually be "lower" because the comps are 'free') makes for a better vig than just a naked Pass or Don't Pass bet of comped chips. (this, in consideration that 2 paid Place numbers before the ISR would pay off 'enough' in correct odds plus Puts to offset the reduction in Odds on the surviving bets)

My question is, since they're "free" chips, can I be more mathematically "efficient" with some other betting use of my comp chips, or is my idea dumber than dirt?

I think what you are asking is whether or not utilizing a comped chip as your flat bet then makes your free odds bet truly free. The answer to that, as you laid it out, is yes. Now the real question is whether or not that is an advantage play or not. The answer to that is - depends. Depends on whether or not you are the shooter and whether or not your skill set it working to your advantage that day on that hand. But over the long run, yes, it should be an efficient way to play. Certainly better than throwing them in the Field or some such shit. But back up the line Irish made the real point. It all comes down to whether or not the casino will actually ALLOW you to do this or not. If not - it's all academic anyway.

Thanks, Heavy. I've asked two dealers at IP and they said they'd allow a Put bet with Odds on any number after the CO, but I forgot to ask if they'd allow me to reduce the Odds whenever I wanted. But the proof will have to wait til I actually throw the money down. I'll post what happens when I finally get to the casino.

So, if you have $120 in comp chips, that's 25 $5 bets, right? But the chips you're using for the odds are from your bankroll, right? So is your goal to have six put bets across, with big odds, then take one hit and down, or? That could be interesting, it might draw a lot of attention, though I'd think the house would like the volatility.

I haven't played with comped chips; but I'd think I'd consider a don't progression. For instance, lately at MGM, I have been playing my free bet as the second in a DP series, i.e $25 DP, $50 DP free bet + a $3 yo; then repeat with $60 DP of chips and a $5yo.

So, for your $5 compies on the DP with a mini-CT-SL..... $5, $15, $35, $70 (shaved for your $120)......... my thinking is more toward converting the freebies to true cash, build your bankroll, then use that bankroll, instead of placing odds with "my" chips.

Just a thought, D.N8r