Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Whew! That's a mouthful. Let's break it down.

You walk into the casino for your first session of the day. There are two tables open and both are $10 games with about the same number of players. You have a general idea of how you want to play, but you have not idea how those tables are running - hot, cold, choppy, whatever.

You pick the table that "looks best" to you and buy in for $500. You're not a pad and paper charter, but you don't want to put a lot of action on the layout until you have a read on the table.

What is your play strategy at this point. Don't Pass and a single Don't Come? Pass and a single Come? One hit can't miss? Place the Six and Eight? Lay the point. There are dozens of sensible plays and a lot more strategies that are completely whacked out. What's your approach?

In Tunica last week, I played next to an older gentleman that was doing a pure grind play that seemed like it might be useful in this situation

$30DP
After point is set, place the point with enough to break even or make a couple bucks on one side or the other
4/10: $20 Win $10 on a SO, win $6 if the point hits
5/9: $25 Win $5 on a SO, win $5 if the point hits
6/8: $30 Break even on a SO, win $5 if the point hits.

I like to get a read on the table for whatever it's worth. It helps to arrive in the middle of a roll..or just after one has started. How people are betting, the general tone of what's going on. Is there an annoying troglodyte setting up chips in your face. What I hate most is seeing 5-7 rolls SO. If that is happening I wait until I get the dice because the old 5-7 stuff is Bankroll Kill Zone. After the read I can go dark or right or simply wait for the cubes.

Hmmmmm, I like to watch at least one shooter before buying in and during that time, I study the other players betting plays. This is after I scan all the tables for darkside bets, as seeing a darkside player (that appears proficient*) is a green light for me. If there are no darksiders, I'll step up to the rail after the next shooter has started (pretending to fumble with my wallet) and then hold my cash until the next decision. This way, I have some idea what's happening and it hasn't cost me any $$.

Provided neither of the previous two shooters tossed a comeout winner, I'll bet the table min DP. Otherwise, I'll generally wait for a DC. My goal is to win that first dark bet, get up right away. If the DP is knocked off, I'll come back on at 2 times min. Once its on a number, I watch and see. If I've seen 6s or 8s and I'm on an outside number, I might go min on 6 & 8; or I might not, as I'm in no rush to get money out there.

Alternatively, if I deem the table may be trending warm, I'll just do a minimum 6 & 8, and see what comes next.

Ya can't rush things, and since its randies - its gambling, so stay on your tiptoes, D.N8r


* in other words someone who doesn't ask the dealer what a DP or DC is after they make the bet; and then see what they do after it travels....btw if its a stack of chips then obviously they are competent......

I'm definitely a watcher too when I first get to any table to try and get a handle on the individual shooters and how the dice are behaving.

scout wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:02 am Hey 22Inside, thnick, and D.N8r,

How do you handle your first bet when the table is empty?

Scout,

An empty table? What's that? LOL

Empty is good, especially if its a table I know a bit about

I buy-in at my preferred position, bet the PL with a World bet & a HiLo and use the X-6 mutant for a quick kill on a string of horn numbers. After that, I bet the 6 & 8 and generally also a heatseeker come bet and switch to either my V-3 or V-2 mutant, depending on the table surface. Observationally I have noted the V-2 mutant seems to produce better results on microfiber tables, so that's my tactic unless my notes have said otherwise.

Then I start banging numbers, the tables fills up with the first bozo betting chips squarely in my LZ, then more bozos who buy-in in the middle of your toss, or late bet you. Before you know it - a craps game has broken out; cocktail girls are tapping you on the shoulder as you toss, the mysterious chip fill arrives, as do 2-3 more suits and you just press thru. Two hours later, you color up and ask for a steakhouse comp

N8

Yeah..I do the same as DNater..crossed sixes, world bet on my toss..empty table or no. I learned that bet on the forum, by the way and it has paid off. Six straight horns a couple of sessions ago up at Cherokee river. And like Irish..check the surface bounce. They reconfigure surfaces often. Your favorite table may not be such a favorite.

DarthNater wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:36 am

scout wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:02 am Hey 22Inside, thnick, and D.N8r,

How do you handle your first bet when the table is empty?

Scout,

An empty table? What's that? LOL

Empty is good, especially if its a table I know a bit about

I buy-in at my preferred position, bet the PL with a World bet & a HiLo and use the X-6 mutant for a quick kill on a string of horn numbers. After that, I bet the 6 & 8 and generally also a heatseeker come bet and switch to either my V-3 or V-2 mutant, depending on the table surface. Observationally I have noted the V-2 mutant seems to produce better results on microfiber tables, so that's my tactic unless my notes have said otherwise.

N8

DN - What's your V-2 and V-3 variants? What's on top and in front?

DP

scout wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:02 am Hey 22Inside, thnick, and D.N8r,

How do you handle your first bet when the table is empty?

If I'm familiar with the table, I'll tiptoe in. Min pass line, skip the world ace-deuce action I generally play on the comeout, set 3V instead of my usual X6. If the table has ATS, I'll toss out a minimum 1-1-1 just in case lightning strikes. After point is established, min bet on 6 and 8. If the come out toss looked particularly bouncy, I may wait with the initial place bets until I toss a box number.

More and more I find myself starting every unknown shooter off with a low level OHCM play. On myself my play never changes. PL with 3-4-5x odds. $18 or $24 each six and eight. Let's see where it goes.

Dicepops wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:24 am

DN - What's your V-2 and V-3 variants? What's on top and in front?

DP

Dicepops,

Been using these with some variations from time to time since Beau, Heavy, and Irish dialed me in, in 2005:

My V-3 mutant is 6-3 on top & 4-5 facing me & was my primary play till 201x, when I evolved to the v-2 mutant for all the synthetic surfaces.
My V-2 mutant is 4-2 on top & 2-6 facing me.

Its a transpose from the standard sets.... at V-3 standard: rotate right die 90 deg away from you, then make it the left die; for the new right die, rotate it 180 deg by vert axis.....I mutate all six reference sets that way; and study the transposes in BT. A couple of years ago, Irish tweaked my V-2 by further rotating the left die another 180 deg.

I then memorize the faces for ease of setting.

For darksiding I use the all seven mutant: 4-5 on top; 5-4 facing. Sometimes it just bombs even numbers, so always ready to transition it.

Lots of sessions on BT seem to confirm the sets still deliver the goods. Generally, I avoid number sniping as once I have something working, I want to stay with it, N8

heavy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:33 am More and more I find myself starting every unknown shooter off with a low level OHCM play. On myself my play never changes. PL with 3-4-5x odds. $18 or $24 each six and eight. Let's see where it goes.

This is smart play IMO. This will be my play when I get back on the table next week.

$6DP/$6 6&8 on unknown or randies...$6DP/$18 6&8 regression on myself. If toss is on and making passes, I would switch to the PL instead of DP.

If randies are just bombing out, I would just do a progressive DP bet until beaten.

I looked to see if Irish responded because I knew I'd agree with him so what Irish said ^^^

The only minor difference is I'd have a PL bet on the shooter before me (assuming I can get my preferred spot). PL as not to ruffle any feathers but I would pretty much kiss that bet good bye. I'd see it like a session fee.

My betting strategy on my self is the same as my home casino; PL, single odds, 6/8 place. I'd play at the level my BR affords me, however I may decrease my "loss limit" depending how quickly I SO.