Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

On a dice control site called koganinja, the guy selling his dice control offers for sale a third party product called Trinity Method.

Has anyone used it?

Like it? Don't like it?

I do my own thing, but now that I am participating on the forum, and understand the power of the group's collective brainpower and experience on certain promoted products. That's why I am asking for an honest opinion, but only from someone who has used the Trinity method.

Please no one trash this guy's product if you personally have not used it. I get it, it is some type of charting system, but I want an actual opinion from someone who has used Trinity method, because I already have read all the posts that say nothing works except dice control, and I've read all the people who say even DI does not work... I hope someone out there who knows firsthand can actually just give a fair assessment. That's all.

As Heavy always says, no trolls please and keep it friendly, just good honest input please.

THANX!

Say hello to Harley!

LOL. Sorry Enthusiast. You had to be here to get the "Harley" reference.

He's selling a roll tracking strategy. There are hundreds of them out there. They are all 99% alike. Some focus more on approaching the game from the right side. Others form the dark side. Some, like guys who get laid more, swing both ways. You're tracking both players and the table in general for streaks and trends and looking for repeating numbers by player - and on the table itself. You're also looking for the general table trend. I define the trend simply like this. Are the number of rolls between sevens expanding or contracting? If they are expanding you should be betting more and betting on the right side. If they are contracting you should be betting less or betting on the dark side. Simple, right?

It goes beyond that. As you track this stuff long enough you'll see what I'll call a "brick wall" line at the table. Say you go once around the table and you notice that no player has gotten beyond five rolls. No, this is not a Scoblete "ah ha!" moment. This is MATH at work. But players who buy into the brick wall theory use it as a guide line as to when to take their bets down or turn their bets off. If you happen to play at a table full of players who have purchased systems like The Strategy or The Method, for example, you'll suddenly see every table at the table turn their bets off. For the shooter this is sometimes a "holy shit!" moment. For me, it's a queue to turn my bets off. Not because I believe in the brick wall theory, but because everyone just scared the shit out of my shooter.

You may also notice that for the last six shooters who tossed the dice the shooter tossed a 9 just before the seven showed. Suddenly this is an "enemy" number. Now every shooter is turning their bets off every time a nine shows. Me? I'm collecting $50 for $1. Why? Because it's a bullshit theory. The dice have no memory.

I could go on and on. Now I'll tell you that a LARGE percentage of the things covered in these strategies are things I cover in my seminars and have since day one. Things like turning your bets off after the dice leave the table, after a stick change, or after an argument at the table over a payout, etc. Why? Because I consider theses to be energy draining events that impact the psyche of the shooter. It's not superstition on my part - it's founded on my belief that 90% of the game of craps - particularly when it comes to dice influencers - is based on the crap between their ears. And if some energy draining event gets between their ears I want my bets off.

Story time. Years ago a fairly large number of Axis Power Craps members purchased a very expensive system sold by a guy that is a tracking strategy similar to what this guy is selling. They paid close to $3K each for it. One of these guys shared a copy of it with another APC alum who promptly told him, "you should have saved your money and gone back and read you old Axis Power Craps manuals. Heavy told you all this stuff ten years ago." End of story.

Can this stuff help your game? Any time you turn your bets off or take them down you reduce your exposure to the seven and that ultimately saves your money. But do these strategies give you an advantage by telling you when to do it? IMHO - no. In fact, I find them a distraction. When you have half a dozen guys at the table trying to track rolls with pad and pen, half of them forgetting what rolled last and asking the guy next to them what rolled, asking the guy next to them to hold their pad or to write down rolls for them while they toss, or worse, trying to write down their OWN rolls instead of focusing on their throwing. It's just frustrating. Couple that with them waving their hands and their tracking pads over the table shouting for the dealers to turn them off - like I said, it's frustrating. I'd rather just go find another table and play lone wolf.

Hopefully that helps you. My opinion but I'm sticking to it.

Thanks Heavy. I was just about to ask who's Harvey, so thanks for explaining. Also, thanks for the heads up on what Trinity likely is. I'm guessing I'll stay away from it. Seems like someone would have actually used it, but I didn't see any reviews on the forum. I was thinking no review was a good review, but if as you say it's like 99% of what's out there, I'm looking for additional ways to play 'for cover' and definitely don't want to be a notepad carrying player ; -) tracking what other players are doing. That's extra attention for sure, over and above any normal 'mild' at best scrutiny any player gets if they stay too long, win too much or just call attention to themselves for no good reason.

Greetings Enthusiast,

I have said this before, and will say it again now...ALL SYSTEMS WORK,AND ALL METHODS WORK,AND ALL STRATEGY'S WORK, untill the seven says they don't.

Luck at the casino.

jaime.

Counting dice on my rolls is the way to go. My story, sticking to it.

There's nothing wrong with counting rolls, but you don't need a pad and pen to do it. You can do it with chips in the back rail. Just get six chips and line them up. O O O O O O

Each chip represents a box number. From left to right - 4 - 5 - 6 - 8 - 9 - 10. There are a number of ways to do this. Start with the chips flipped toward you. The first time a number rolls flip it forward. Example, the six rolls. Flip it forward (use white chips for this). If another six rolls stack another white chip on top of it. Every time a six rolls add a white chip. When the fifth one rolls replace the four white chips with a red chip. If another one rolls add a white chip to it and so on. Do that for all of the number. You don't have to track sevens because you start over whenever a shooter sevens out. But you're tracking the dominant numbers as you go and you're tracking the length of the hands excluding trash numbers. That's really all the info you need except for one fact - I like to know the number of rolls BETWEEN each number. For example, how many rolls between sixes, how many rolls between fives, how many rolls between fours and tens. That is a class unto itself and something I teach in my advanced betting class. But you get the general idea. The more frequently a number rolls the better, and the more $$$ you'll likely want to have on it.

Good thoughts.
Heavy stated above: "... I like to know the number of rolls BETWEEN each number. For example, how many rolls between sixes, how many rolls between fives..."

I agree 1000% as Distance between events is important regardless of game or wager type. Often overlooked.
Althouugh I like to make attempts at offsetting H.E., however, Variance is what we should be paying attention to IMO. I like to know how much distance(how far must I travel), until I can expect to see my desired event again.


Cheers,

The one thing about variance, it varies. Chasing after the wind.

"The one thing about variance, it varies."

I agree, and the great thing is it can be calculated and its range can easily be estimated. Furthermore, one of the more important attribute of Variance is that It also has limits , just as randomicity does.

8.3 is an accepted potential " guestimation" of the "average" number of
Dice Tosses of " an average hand " prior to THE TERMINAL SEVEN OUT toss.

Average indicates :
some number of dice toss trials may extend longer GREATER THAN 8.3.
and
some number of dice tosses may extend to a number less THAN 8.3
>
Come Out SEVENS were aptly called "GOOD SEVENS" by Irish Setter.
Got to credit Irish for that clever designation.
<
Also, there are fewer HANDS that extend beyond
THREE (3) Come Out Point than those extending
beyond three established Pass Line Point.
-
Are there examples of a hand running on beyond
the three Come Out Roll
established Pass Line Point threshold ?

YES on occasion:
There Are Come Out Roll Pass Line Points established even beyond three (3)

The number of Craps Hands terminating prior
even to Come Out Pass Line number Four
maybe far greater than those actually extending beyond

that arbitrary Three(3) Come Out Roll threshold
with a large number of attempts terminating
prior to actually establishing
a C/O Pass Line Point beyond ONLY ONE Pass Line Point established
prior to a BAD SEVEN showing to terminate THE HAND.

The objective of chasing " Dice Influencing"
(another neat term thunk up by Irish Setter )
is to extend the number of attempts tossed
involving all that studying, learning stuff and effort
and
perhaps set a new world record multi-hour ADVENTURE

just me saying
w c

Oh boy

Thanks Irish, spot on. I made a sarcastic comment about variance with a Biblical observation. You know Heavy said "Don't be a dick". It's tough.

My point in all of this is that there is no magic system out there and all new systems being sold by these buys are simply repackaging of old systems that have been around for years. You can dress up a pig and it's still a pig. Putting a king sized condom on a little dick doesn't make it a big dick. Charging a big price for something doesn't make it any better something someone else is giving away for free. You just have to be able to discern the difference in bacon and bullshit.

Hi Enthusiast: Thx for post.
"On a dice control site called koganinja, the guy selling his dice control offers for sale a third party product called Trinity Method.
Has anyone used it?..."

Ive never been to his (kogas) forum, not familiar with this approach(interesting name for the strategy).

HOO post
"The one thing about variance, it varies."

Tgold post to HOO
I agree, and the great thing is it can be calculated and its range can easily be estimated. Furthermore, one of the more important attribute of Variance is that It also has limits , just as randomicity does.


IRISH POST:
y

I assume this was in response to:

"I agree, and the great thing is it can be calculated and its range can easily be estimated. Furthermore, one of the more important attribute of Variance is that It also has limits , just as randomicity does."

Irish SA and snide remark:
You were kinder than I would have been. 1M Monkeys etc. etc. The great thing about the English language is that words can be strung together easily and the result be entirely meaningless.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

irish--I stand by my post (to HOO Post:"The one thing abour variance, it varies".), and my addendum statement that: one of the more important attributes of Variance is that it also has limits, as do random numbers do ...etc.

No need to take pop shot at other posters. If you truly do NOT believe that "variance varies" as the previous poster stated prior to my response" in his response to some other previous posters post , and you truly do NOT believe that random nums approach limits(sway back and forth).
if that's your theory fine , though, I would be interested in hearing your underlying thesis.

Again, if it bothers you that I tell another poster "I agree with your statement...., about another posters post/ then add an additional comment that I find is very important for my approach to games(bac),...about the (swaying back/forth) of random numbers...etc then why even comment. If your objective was simply be the forum cooler(i.e., kill the initial posters questions re: had anyone seen this koja site or strategy), then you should have just stated u do NOT believe variance varies, and u do NOT believe random numbers approach limits. ...etc . So be it , we all different approaches /dif theories...etc

Side Note
I actually find this attribute(e.g., BAC--variance swaying back /forth and random # outcomes approaches limits) that I find a very important part in games such as bac(i.e., where the marbles are never placed back into the jar prior to the next draw...etc. Actually one of the easiest spots I the shoe to pickup a couple wins.

A better comment from u irish would have been something like. Hey tgold I saw your comments on your post to another posters post to a prior post, and though you (tgold) agree with the other post re:varaince/ random numbers...etc, approaching limits...etc, and ur use of this back /forth sway to help win...Then you irish could state why u disagreed, u know something like u use to view the game that way, but now u play with a different approach..etc and your roi has increased .08% per year......etc. OR you could have just ignored /moved on.



So again, NRN to my post (et al) if youre only objective is to make a snide SA remark.

heavy » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:45 pm
My point in all of this is that there is no magic system out there and all new systems being sold by these buys are simply repackaging of old systems that have been around for years. You can dress up a pig and it's still a pig. Putting a king sized condom on a little dick doesn't make it a big dick. Charging a big price for something doesn't make it any better something someone else is giving away for free. You just have to be able to discern the difference in bacon and bullshit.

Hi Heavy--I agree. Again, I don't this know thisninja site or know anything about this trilogy system/havnt read all the posters opinions about the tri method. So no opinion on this particular system or seller.

When I hear of or see a NEW system my first thought is WHY? I cant imagine the time involved to package/market/meet and visit with total strangers...etc. I would just hire a couple college students and pay them to do x# of decisions per day .

In todays world its just too simple to create test results, facts, or whatever they want to call it in the sellers marketing ploy--and takes too much effort for the consumer to verify if it does indeed produce as indicated, or not.


I do think that as we find the larger pieces of the puzzle the smaller pieces are easier to spot/ put in their proper place(though imo we will never fully complete the puzzle. Sometimes it seems like a 1000 piece puzzle.


continued success to all

Just to clarify Irish, you wrote: "The Trinity Method is nonsense." As I have no idea what that is, I can't make that statement, but are you saying that unequivocally "The Trinity Method is nonsense." and that you can make that statement without knowing what it is?

I do not wish to spend or risk almost $1,000 on something unless there are some people out there who know for sure that it is "a proven winning method" or for a fact it is not a proven winning method.

If I understand you correctly when you say the "The Trinity Method is nonsense", that is not based on having used it? I get it, why would anyone share or sell a method that is working, but then again, why would anyone on this forum do that either, so I was hoping to know how you know for sure it is "nonsense". If you knew for sure, I wouldn't waste my time on it. As a member, I think most members, always look for ways to play the game in addition to whatever they currently do, so I would eliminate the Trinity method from further consideration if you know for sure it is "nonsense".

All systems are nonsense at craps Enthusiast. It's an easy statement to make. Anybody can post up any system they want and me, Irish, Heavy and anybody who knows the house edge of all the various bets can tell you how much on average you are going to lose following said system. Of course, there are different levels of nonsense depending on what bets are incorporated into each system.

Greetings L.S,

L.S, you are a man of reason, thank you.

L.A.T.C. jaime.