Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Since the casinos are closed and there are no trip reports on the site these days it would be a great time for all of us to brush up on our betting strategies. A great place to start is with the bread and butter bets of Place bettors (also known as the Steak and Egg bets) the Six and Eight. What I'd like each of you active participants on the forum to do is is post YOUR no bullshit approach to playing the Six and Eight. If you are a $6 Six and Eight bettor - don't be ashamed to admit it. Let's hear how you play it. Do you press the first hit or wait for the second or third? Do you take one hit and down or do you wait for a second hit? Do you power press? Do you regress by taking one of the bets down? What's your story. $12, $18, $24, $30, $60, $120, WHATEVEVER your starting bet level is, we want to hear your strategy. What's your first bet, what do you do after the first hit, and what are your press/take/regress/down moves from there. Players who need help want to know!

Ok, I know I dont post that much, but hey got time on my hands. So let's go, I'm a low roller, like 5 dollar tables. My play starts like this, ( I will play randies) after point establish, 6 dollar 6&8. 1st hit drop 5 go to 18. If I get a 2nd hit its same bet, 21 dollars and technically out of the hand. 3rd hit on same number drop 3 dollars go to 42. If I get a 4th hit on same number drop a dollar and collect 2 greens. So basically I would power press the next hit, same bet the following hit, pretty conservative, but a lot of fun if your on a budget and dont have a large bank roll.

my approach is either Place at Risk :

either $36 on the Six(6) Eight combo ( $18 ea )
Or
$110 Inside Numbers ( Five(5), Six (6), Eight98), Nine(9)
after two dice tosses by the Dice Tosser at the moment
and
subject to my mood at that juncture

either

Turn wagers of at that moment on THAT SHOOTER
and
wait out until THE NEXT REPLACEMENT Shooter
or
should I feel confident in THE SPECIFIC SHOOTER
Then do an Initial Reduction to $66 inside
go along for THE Ride

Just a mixture of gamble and Craps Table Experience

just me saying
w c

Also a low roll,but I like to spread to the 5&9. Start with $12 on 6&8 after the point is rolled. Go to $18 each on the first number hit, take the second hit, so in for $1, go to 5 and 9 for $10 each, now even after next hit. Then power press next two numbers ($30 or $25) and let the other two pay rent, no pressing. Take two greens and either start over at $44 or down.

Like with my pass line strategy this is a moving target as well. I have always been an across bettor at least on myself and known DIs, so 6 or 12 depending on table minimums or how things are going. Evolving from take first hit to up one on first hit especially on a 12 dollar bet. I used to drop 3 at 18 go to 42 but have become more conservative going to 24 or 30 first. Then it depends how quickly the hits are coming and what other numbers are rolling as to how aggressive i press. I almost always just press the number that hits and not both together.

On a RR I do 18 each on 6&8 , first hit down to 12 each then up a unit on next hit.

On rhythm randy, 2 opening rolls, then $12 6 and 8, first hit go to $18 each. 2nd hit either one goes to $42. No hits for 3 rolls, both down to $12 each and maybe $10 on the other most hit number. Same bet, same bet. Shooter I know gets $18 6 and 8, go to $42. No hits for 3, back down to $18. On me..$10PL, 1 test roll after the CO. Off numbers showing? Must make that PL w/ min odds before anything takes place. I've gone to early power press, one take at $50 for $1 and then $90, $180, $210. If I'm shooting well..start with $120 inside.

I have stolen this "system" and really enjoy playing it on $5 to $10 dollar tables. Anything above $10 gets really pricey and can lead to some short sessions. I have seen PappyVanWinkle play live and I wish I would have adopted his fearless style sooner in my craps play. You can get to 500 for 10 pretty quickly with this style of play.

I have been playing craps for about 10 years now. I have NEVER had a bet reach table max. Mainly because I tend to sit and collect purple before continuing on. Also, having a $500 bet on any place number tends to get my heart racing...

Thx Buy the four, That's good. I think we have a player on here with something similar,( don't recall their name). thx for sharing.

Re: Heavys orig post.

I have not played only a 6and 8 for many years.

I have several 2-3 wagers methods that include the 6 and or 8(Heavy if not what u want on this "6-8" thread (simply remove):

Option 1: Lay the 6(sometimes 8) for $42/ sometimes start $84, most frequently start session at $42, I typically don't use on DI(especially if they seem to be shooting for 6/8s or inside set(plus they are wagering 6/8)..etc..

Hit 1: Parlay to 78,
Hit two:Regress to 42,
Hit3: regress to 36,
Hit 4: all down to 0.
Notes: If I get knocked off first wager(say it was 6), move the $42L to the 8, If knocked off 2nd time Im finished with that shooter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option 2: Nothing on CO (min p or dp). Place two inside # including the 8/ most often the 9 to start( I may in latter part of session choose two dif InS #s).
$30 or 60 each (most often start session @ 30).

First hit full parlay+ onto both with residual+ onto the recently hit #,

2nd hit: Full parlay(no +,parlay only) and if both hits on same # only that number receives a press.,

3rd hit: Everything down to their orig base.

4th hit--the other nonhit# is regressed 5 or6$,

5th hit: Other# is regressed 5 or 6...etc. e.g., If both were at 60/60(starting level0 then after the 4th hit would look like 60/55 or54. If they were back to 30/30(starting level) then after that 4th hit they would look like 30/25 or 24....etc.



Option 3 : I have another 3 wager approach that includes the 6/8 and one other inside# similar to opt2 above . Too lengthy to post right now / plus it has not produced as well as option 1 or 2 above(so far anyway). more later

I play option 1 the most and it performs slightly better vs. Option 2 or opt 3.

Thx everyone good thoughts.

I'm a relatively new player so the 6 and 8 bets are pretty much my entry to the world of craps, and they are where I still put most of my chips. I started out just flat betting them, and would usually just let them ride until the shooter sevened out. At first, I didn't put much into throwing the dice, so lots of times I didn't. But I would put minimum level bets on both the 6 and the 8 and see where that went. In time, I started learning about dice influencing, and I bought a package of casino dice through the internet. I practiced aligning them and then gripping and tossing them in as consistent a manner as I could. I started playing the pass line when the dice came to me and I experimented with different sets, and tossing from different places around the table. But I'd always have place bets on the 6 & 8.

After several trips to the local casino, and a few decent hands, I realized that everyone else was making a lot more from my hands than I was. Then, after getting some advice here, I started pressing my bets before collecting. The logic for that wasn't that hard to follow, and if I got only one hit and then the seven came, it would still be a losing hand, so I began to press up my hits evenly across both bets. The vast majority of the time I'm playing on a $10 table, so I always start with a $12 place bet on both the 6 and the 8. On my first hit on either, I bump both up to $18 each and rack the extra $2. Then after a second hit, I'll put $3 out of my rack and ask the dealer to make them both look like $30 each. At this point I have $25 invested, and $60 in action. In the beginning, if I got that third hit, I'd just take everything down and rack $95 for that shooter. That seemed to work about half of the times that I'd get to that point. I'd sometimes just collect after the second hit if I was not doing well, and just take it as a chance to wait, watch, and have enough to bet on another shooter. Unfortunately that had me standing there and watching someone go on a tear more than a few times, and I was always too reluctant to jump back in. I decided that to stay in on those longer hands, I would regress to base levels, and just keep doing that for as long as that hand lasted.

So my next strategy was to get those $12 place bets out on both the 6 and the 8, and press them up for the first two hits. Once I'd have $30 each on those numbers, I'd decide how to handle the next hit. If the two hits came fast, and that third hit came in about six or seven tosses, I'd usually add another dollar and take both bets up to $48 each. The first few times I did that, the stars must have aligned, because I got the next hit and would regress back to $12 each on the 6 and 8. There were times that I'd work those bets right back up to $48 each again too. Looking back, I have to admit, that got me a little over-aggressive. I had a weekend trip where I'd press everything up to $48 each and then lose it every time. And that was only on those times when the seven didn't show before then, and wipe me out before I got that far. Took a big dent in my bankroll that weekend.

Now my strategy is always to press on the first two hits, and try to get $30 each on the 6 and the 8. If the table is running cold, I'll collect and regress on the third hit, and go back to base level bets. If the hits come quickly, I'll press up to $48 each. I have, on a few occasions, got that hit and then added another $4, bringing the bets to $78 each, and then collected and regressed with the next hit. That has only hit twice for me so far, and it's a huge win for me when it does, but it usually gets lost to a seven. I've had a single hand go for long enough to get me 10 hits on my numbers, but I regressed three times so I didn't get the individual bets up that high.

What is now on my radar, is to start my bets at $30 each, and press from there. I figure that if I can get to three hits as often as I have been with base level bets, then starting higher should get me into those bigger bets faster. That also means going from $25 per shooter to $60 ($65 after the presses), and my bankroll doesn't seem big enough for that yet. I've done it on myself, when I got the dice, but it has not been successful for me yet. I'm also at the point where I recognize and have become familiar with a few other guys that usually have longer hands, so I might try with one of those if the feeling is there. Three successful hits, pressing from $12 each, to $18 each, to $30 each, and then collecting, gives me $95 from my original $25, which is a profit of $70, or 280%. And a couple hundred gets me 8 tries at that. Starting at $30, then going to $48, then to $78 each and collecting gets me $247 from the $65 I'll put out, which is a profit of $182, or 280%. Funny how that works out. The only problem is that a couple hundred only gets me three tries, so this might not be a good bet level for my current bankroll.

Having completed my rookie season as a craps player this past month, before placing the [6] and [8] I survey the table to ascertain what type of shooters have their belly's up to the bumper. Taking a step further determining what type of shooters are at the table. Utilizing proper craps etiquette, I buy in. 5 dollar table please.

Chicken Feeders (determined by first throw) One unit risked on the FIELD. Home Casino only has 2.78% advantage as they pay double on the [2] and triple on the [12]. If a field number is thrown, rack the profits. If not, done with the shooter.

Randies. Wait for them to establish point and go in cautiously more often or not risking only one unit, Maybe placing the sister number of their point. Rack profits or done with shooter.

Recognized Good Shooters (mostly by how they set the dice or previous throw). Place the [6] and [8] for one unit six dollars. Rack the first hit on each individual number then up a unit with each successive hit. If field numbers are showing up, one unit is risked and if hit, original red chip and profit is then moved to the [5] and [9].

Dice in My Hand. Pass Line. Establish point. If shooting well, then 22 Inside. Same progression as described below.

I keep up with the hits by using four white chips, one each for the inside numbers. Once thrown they get flipped forward so I can keep track of when to go up a unit at the second hit.

Progression for the [6] and [8]: 12, 18, 24, 30, 36, 40 regress to 12 dollars after the forty is hit. Same for [5] and [9].

As the bankroll grows I hope to move into the Heavy's power press strategy. For now I'll go slow and sure until I learn and practice more.

Too all, please stay safe and healthy.

Banker_Bro

These are all interesting. Thanks, all! Can’t wait to get back in the casino and try them out

Cap-n-Lou: Yes im with you 100%. Hopefully most will open their doors within two--four weeks.

Rickhem: I agree. Very excellent post. I can relate to a lot of it. I think many prob follow a similar progression at the beginning. Ive actually circled back around to some of it. So don't abandon all of it as you seek larger wins. Several things you said jumped out at me because I had the same thought process at the beginning. I like that you started out with a conservative mindset.

"After several trips to the local casino, and a few decent hands, I realized that everyone else was making a lot more from my hands than I was.."

When I first started it was because I had purchased an antique dresser/found three old craps books in the bottom. John Patrick, F Scoblete, and don't recall the other. All good reads and all suggested basically the same: Line w odds=good , 6/8==good. Field,hops...etc = bad. All of them were helpful /prob found J patricks money mgmt suggestions the most helpful.

So like you above my go to play was: 6/8. And I won(small and consistent), until just what you mentioned above about going for larger wins because everyone was making more off my hands. I did start winning larger amounts, however, (losing more sessions too). IMO we will always be in pursuit of that perfect balance.

You seem to be ahead of the curve. Thx for all the details.

Continued success,

Thanks Tgold. It definitely is an evolutionary process, and as I move forward, not all of the paths I try lead to success. The trick is identifying the wrong path quickly.

Following my first couple posts, I got a PM that suggested I read John Patrick's book, so I bought a copy and have been reading it bit by bit. Since the chapters are all two or three pages each, it's a great bathroom book. I like his money management advice, although there have been times when I reached a decent profit from a specific shooter, taken all my bets down, and watched my numbers get hit 5 or 6 more times in that same hand. Now I just regress to base levels and collect more frequently as the hand moves forward.

At this point in time, the thing that "does it" for me, is the feeling of beating the casino. I used to play blackjack occasionally, and wins there gave a bit of that same feeling, but I get it more from craps. I've also slipped a few twenties into a slot machine or two, but those rare instances of winning on those provided me absolutely no gratification at all. So if I'm being completely honest, there is a kind of personal vindication of my thought process and my discipline that results from a win, even a small one, at the craps table.

I have had a couple times throwing myself where I knew I was on, and even having my dice bounce out, hearing the other player's comments, or any of all the other BS going on, had absolutely no effect on me. Those felt like I was in complete command of the situation, very satisfying. But what happens more frequently on the busy tables where I play, is that you look over at the person shooting, make an assessment, and bet based upon that. It feels good when you're right. I get a similar kind of satisfaction from making that assessment on a shooter, then quickly realizing that my initial assessment might not be accurate, and adjusting my bets accordingly. Craps is the only game in the casino that allows those options.

Hi Rickhem

I agree with your statement re:j Patrick book:
"...I got a PM that suggested I read John Patrick's book, so I bought a copy and have been reading it bit by bit. Since the chapters are all two or three pages each, it's a great bathroom book. I like his money management advice..."

I too found JP book interesting, entertaining /the money management topics were helpful, especially when I started and it was one of the first books I read. I was a conservative player(i.e., didn't parlay/press to infinity), so that too was likely why I found his book in line with my approach.

If I recall he seemed to focus most chapters/topics toward wagering/ conservative wagers like (6/8 only or a 1-2 wager approach). I agree with JP re:designing the wager size as a f(x) of buyin...etc and gamble with a focus on our target(I.e., win goal). Which I think was very important when I started(and today as well).

Rickhem --thx for sharing your 6/8 and other wagering approaches.

Continued Success,

I like the 5$ table cuz other players cost me a lot less.
I will go as far as only having 1 bet running for 6$ on bad shooters. But I will spread or press them quick.

6$ six on first hit pays 7, add 4$, take 8&9(or10) depending on shooter history, I will spread to two numbers. Then I powerpress them to 3 units.
6-18-18-24-54-60 that will cover most hands.
On trusted shooter I will start with 3 bets and spread to 5 on first hit. With the same betting pattern.

On myself I will bet pass with single odds, 12$ six &8, if pass wins I spread to 5$ each on outsides, then press them to 3 units on next hit. For 6&8 hits I go strait to 30$ for 4$ and collect& press start. 12-30-30-42-60-60-132-132-138-300-300-300-30. On any bad feeling I get from table vibe, as my bets are well progressed over 60+, I will regress to 15-15-30-30-15-15.

That is how I usually do it.
On bad days I will have a 3 unit bet on a single number and spread.
18$ six, first hit pays 21, add 1 and take eight for 12 and 10$ nine. Spread with my pass bet and press the rest. 18-30-30-42-60-60... You get it.

I basically press first hit full and collect twice.

Or sometimes I will play 15$ table out of availability.

15$ pass, 1x odd, 18$ six. Spread to 18$ eight&15$ten. Next hit up a unit, next hit collect,...
18-24-24-54-60-132-132-138-300-300.

I don't aim for more then 300 from small start...I focus on collects.

On a given night I'm up 1000$ and things are going well...I push it to 60$ base bets but I will never go over it.

60-60-66-150-150-180-240-540-600...

* Little note: I like spread betting cuz you transform 5 outs of 36 into 14 outs on 36 for a little reinvestment. It has worked good for me*