It has been a long time since MP began discussion on the 204 bet. There were a lot of interesting parts to it, not the least of it was my introduction to a bet where all the payouts are 49 dollars. The information is no big deal, he did not invent anything, it was just an ‘ah ha moment’. I do not remember anyone putting it into a 204 format. I began calling it the MP204, not saying he invented anything…He did however, kinda earmark it. I have since dropped the MP, mostly because he is gone from the scene.
At the time, it was startling to bring to the casino…You could literally make a dealer’s eyes roll backward trying to understand what you were doing. The combination was unusual.
We had a group in town with the Dice Institute. I arrived late and joined a session in progress at Binions. It was at a ‘Pony’ table that they kept in the front part of the old Mint area of the casino. All the dealers were scantily clad women designed to draw in a bunch of guys like us. The table was totally full and there was no outsider to our group…We owned it.
Elephant tracks made room for me at straight out and he sold me some chips. At first pause, I put 204 dollars in chips in the come area, when the dealer got to me I said..’That is two hundred and four dollars, the bet is across and starts at the outside with 25, 35, and 42 as you go in.’
Well, the earth suddenly stood still.
She began to stammer. Wa,..wa wa, uh
I explained again using my hand..It is 204 total, 25 on the ten, 35 on the nine, 42 on the eight, same on the other end, trust me, it works.
She fumbled with the chips, looked at um… Picked them up, set them back down.
Time is still standing still.
By this time, the supervisor gets into the act. He walks over. I begin to explain again.
By now the whole table is…Stopped! We all know what the 204 is, after all, MP owns the Dice Institute website…so others join in, trying to explain.
By this time, I am saying..,Look, just give me 160 across. This turns out to be way, way too much information overload for the dealer. She is absolutely on tilt. I think her eyes crossed. She picks up the chips trying to figure out how to cut out 160, however the suit suddenly figures it out and begins to explain to her how to break it down. More fumbling and fidgeting ensues, and on it goes.
This is how two or three minutes can feel like a half hour. Next couple of times I bet the 204, I did it at a table where I was by myself.
My point is that the combinations were seldom used together and no one bet 42..It was always 48. The five and nine start with 25, not 35. It was not routine, and the dealers had to think, not assume.
Within this timeframe, but later, Wizard began talking about the merits of 50 for 1 payout. His approach was to press to that level and hover there, collect, collect collect.
Then Heavy comes out with incredible press moves we’ve all memorized, for each sister set that have a 50 for 1 payout, and leapfrog from there.The 204 is kinda the back bone or pivot point for all three press schedules.
Working with Wizard, I made my own modified version of the 204. Simple, take three hits and regress to 64 across. You have a profit of around 10 dollars depending on what hits and have 64 on the table paid for.
So what is the down side…You may think the issues setting the bet up that I have outlined above. In reality, the initial shock is over and as the years progressed, most dealers are aware, making it less of a struggle.
However, If you have a short hand, going out before the regression, it can take up to twenty times making the regression to recover. Ask me how I know.
Doing a regression never really scared me that much as long as I was bank rolled for it, but as time rolled on, I began to see that having 204 dollars at risk for a 10 dollar return is kinda foolish. I realize that it is more like 74 dollar return if you count the across bet, but the whole idea is to have a paid for bet, and you are counting on some longer hands to save the day. Try to remember that when experiencing a string of short hands. Ask me how know.
Thanks for hanging with me for this long…I am finally getting to what this is all about.
Like many of us, I have time on my hands to explore some of the YouTube videos out there.
Some are instructional and some make me want to throw up.
The other day I came across a guy from Hawaii, I have always been interested in what their thinking is, so I tuned in. He seems pretty savvy, however the presentation is kinda dull, so you have to stay with him. Kinda like this thread.
I was surprised to see that they are dedicated to the 204. They call it the Hawaiian 5-O. That being said, there is one major difference…Instead of taking the payout of each hit, they are pressing it.
ie…First hit. Spread 48 dollars on the three numbers on the side that hit. If the 6 hit, press 15 dollars on the 5, 9, and 18 dollars on the 6.
Second hit..press the other side in the same way.
Third hit…collect the payout and regress to 64 across, and press your favorite method from there.
BTW..If you are the shooter, make minimal pass line bet with no odds, and include point number in the across bet.
So, what is the difference? Well, when you make the regression, because of the presses, your net after the across bet is ~150-200 dollars depending on the numbers that hit. I understand all the risk that comes with any regression. I also understand compounding that comes with pressing your payouts.
When breaking it down to the basic component….The return after regression and setting 64 dollar across bet. Having a return of 10-27 dollars compared to 150-200 dollars is a much better return on investment. Recovery is not such an issue. They ran through 5 hands. Two of them were PSO, and still had a very positive session outcome.
I am not advocating we run out and start making this bet. I am just interested in how it evolved. Even though MP did not invent anything, he did put the combination of numbers together in a rather unique way..If not for that, I wonder if it wold be featured in a YouTube video today.
Any thoughts on this?...If I ever attempt it again, I believe I would advance to the 5-O.
Memo
5-O
Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater
Re: 5-O
Hi Memo,memo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:37 am <snip>
The other day I came across a guy from Hawaii, I have always been interested in what their thinking is, so I tuned in. He seems pretty savvy, however the presentation is kinda dull, so you have to stay with him. Kinda like this thread.
I was surprised to see that they are dedicated to the 204. They call it the Hawaiian 5-O. That being said, there is one major difference…Instead of taking the payout of each hit, they are pressing it.
ie…First hit. Spread 48 dollars on the three numbers on the side that hit. If the 6 hit, press 15 dollars on the 5, 9, and 18 dollars on the 6.
Second hit..press the other side in the same way.
Third hit…collect the payout and regress to 64 across, and press your favorite method from there.
BTW..If you are the shooter, make minimal pass line bet with no odds, and include point number in the across bet.
<snip>
Any thoughts on this?...If I ever attempt it again, I believe I would advance to the 5-O.
Memo
That was a great read, thanks for sharing. I am a little confused on the First & Second hit moves. On the first hit, do the 4, 5, 6 or 8, 9, 10 get pressed or is it the 5 & 9 get pressed. Also, if the second hit is on a number already pressed, why not regress to 64 across then instead of pressing the other side?
Z
Re: 5-O
ZZ-Axis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:09 pm
Hi Memo,
That was a great read, thanks for sharing. I am a little confused on the First & Second hit moves. On the first hit, do the 4, 5, 6 or 8, 9, 10 get pressed or is it the 5 & 9 get pressed. Also, if the second hit is on a number already pressed, why not regress to 64 across then instead of pressing the other side?
Z
If you get 49 dollars for a hit on the 5...
They do not press just the 5, they also press the 4 and 6 as well.
add 15 to the 4, 15 to the 5, and 18 to the 6.
They did not really explain the thought process.
On the second hit, they pressed the opposite side. ie. No matter what hit next, they pressed the 8, 9, 10. That way on the third hit, no matter what, it would be on a pressed up number.
When you regress the dealer gives you 236 back plus the third payout ~70, for a 102 net. Could be more depending on the occurrence of 4, 10, or hitting the already pressed side on the second hit. Working from memory, I may have over estimated the above, or I am missing something. I will have to watch the video again.
That is the way I understood it. You could stop at the second hit and regress. Return would be less.
Memo
Re: 5-O
1st hit 6,8 each got pressed +24
2nd hit 5,9 each got +25
3rd hit no matter what hit take the payout and down to 64 across
Only presses came on the inside numbers
I'm gonna give it a try during next few practice sessions see how it works out for me.
2nd hit 5,9 each got +25
3rd hit no matter what hit take the payout and down to 64 across
Only presses came on the inside numbers
I'm gonna give it a try during next few practice sessions see how it works out for me.
-
wild child
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:29 pm
Re: 5-O
In more recent history Heavy suggested PLACING $180 across to cover
all Six(6) BOX NUMBERS.........
...and his partner played a slightly more aggressive game plan
...Just returned from our Casino Adventure Biloxi/Gulfport
and
moved this to the T R posted on that thread
w c
all Six(6) BOX NUMBERS.........
...and his partner played a slightly more aggressive game plan
...Just returned from our Casino Adventure Biloxi/Gulfport
and
moved this to the T R posted on that thread
w c
Last edited by wild child on Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 5-O
I have noticed that several youtubers have mentioned BT sets etc lately.
If your gonna color up, there needs to be paint on the brush.
Re: 5-O
I've had two practice sessions since my last post concerning the 5 0.
Both sessions ended positive. Today much better than yesterday after a few tweaks of my own.
First day i played it by the book according to my understanding from watching the vid twice.
Hit 1 pressed 6 & 8 24 each
Hit 2 pressed 5 & 9 25 each
Hit 3 down to 64 across.
It worked ok, I was up for the session but when analyzing my results knew I could have done better.
So I made a few changes that I thought might work and they did. I realized very quickly that it only took 2 hits not 3 to get to a positive position after the regression. So I did that move, down to 64 after 2 hits. The other change I made was the placement of the 1st hit. Instead of using it to press the 6 and 8 I used it on the 4 and 10. My thinking was that since I was regressing after only 1 press I might as well use it on the numbers that would give me the best payout if hit. It really felt great to get paid for the pressed up 4 or 10 and then pulling back to 64.
Overall I think getting to "paid for +" status after 2 hits is great. I was able to come back from a few short hands (0 or 1 hit) fairly easily and to actually make money after 3 rolls is pretty crazy.
I realize that I've only used it 2 sessions but am looking forward to seeing how it does over the next few weeks.
I've heard something about strategies or systems working...until they don't. I guess at that point it's discipline and money management that count. So far so good.
Coaster
Both sessions ended positive. Today much better than yesterday after a few tweaks of my own.
First day i played it by the book according to my understanding from watching the vid twice.
Hit 1 pressed 6 & 8 24 each
Hit 2 pressed 5 & 9 25 each
Hit 3 down to 64 across.
It worked ok, I was up for the session but when analyzing my results knew I could have done better.
So I made a few changes that I thought might work and they did. I realized very quickly that it only took 2 hits not 3 to get to a positive position after the regression. So I did that move, down to 64 after 2 hits. The other change I made was the placement of the 1st hit. Instead of using it to press the 6 and 8 I used it on the 4 and 10. My thinking was that since I was regressing after only 1 press I might as well use it on the numbers that would give me the best payout if hit. It really felt great to get paid for the pressed up 4 or 10 and then pulling back to 64.
Overall I think getting to "paid for +" status after 2 hits is great. I was able to come back from a few short hands (0 or 1 hit) fairly easily and to actually make money after 3 rolls is pretty crazy.
I realize that I've only used it 2 sessions but am looking forward to seeing how it does over the next few weeks.
I've heard something about strategies or systems working...until they don't. I guess at that point it's discipline and money management that count. So far so good.
Coaster
Re: 5-O
Coaster,coaster wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:28 pm
First day i played it by the book according to my understanding from watching the vid twice.
Hit 1 pressed 6 & 8 24 each
Hit 2 pressed 5 & 9 25 each
Hit 3 down to 64 across.
It worked ok, I was up for the session but when analyzing my results knew I could have done better.
Coaster
Thanks for the correction. I saw my mistake when re watching the video...
I think I have been watching way too much YouTube!
Let me know how it develops. I have tentative plans to be in Vegas in two weeks..I may give it a try.
Memo
Re: 5-O
I watched the vid (well most of it), wargamed it abit this morning .... the problem with many of these in my opinion, is the are all structured pre covid. For example $66 across as the reduction bet. There a few $10 tables in begas, fewer where i play. Its hard for me to justify 204 across on a 25 table, unless the reduction is 110 inside or even numbers, this again would be a serious break from the strategy.
The one good thing is a regimented reduction in at risk.... minimal wins are still wins of course, but i find it difficult to transpose these types of strategies to $25 tables ... perhaps a $15 table then reduce to $96 across ....
The other thing that irks me on these youtubers is they never play the true odds game on their pass, its always pass alone plus place bets. Am i missing the value of not using odds on the point?
The one good thing is a regimented reduction in at risk.... minimal wins are still wins of course, but i find it difficult to transpose these types of strategies to $25 tables ... perhaps a $15 table then reduce to $96 across ....
The other thing that irks me on these youtubers is they never play the true odds game on their pass, its always pass alone plus place bets. Am i missing the value of not using odds on the point?
If your gonna color up, there needs to be paint on the brush.
Re: 5-O
Parson,Parson wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:24 pm I watched the vid (well most of it), wargamed it abit this morning .... the problem with many of these in my opinion, is the are all structured pre covid. For example $66 across as the reduction bet. There a few $10 tables in begas, fewer where i play. Its hard for me to justify 204 across on a 25 table, unless the reduction is 110 inside or even numbers, this again would be a serious break from the strategy.
The one good thing is a regimented reduction in at risk.... minimal wins are still wins of course, but i find it difficult to transpose these types of strategies to $25 tables ... perhaps a $15 table then reduce to $96 across ....
The other thing that irks me on these youtubers is they never play the true odds game on their pass, its always pass alone plus place bets. Am i missing the value of not using odds on the point?
They are making minimum bet in order to shoot. They cover the point with the place bet..
I used to make pass line and odds and remove the point from the across bet, requiring a bit of arithmetic. it would not work here because of the presses.
You are correct about the pre covid stuff. You could go to 300 across (40, 50, 60)..Then 96 across. Bigger bank roll
bigger risk.
Memo
Re: 5-O
Memo,
I was an MP204 WOTCO devotee for a while; it served me well for opening my eyes to a regression regimen, but the actual bet amounts killed my train of thought too often so I had to alter the amounts. I, too, had the same trouble with dealers at live tables explaining the 25,35,42 as “they all pay $49 Across" bets to dealers because it was such an odd set of bets; last-attempt-finger-pointing with a verbal “$25, $35, 42…” would always kill table momentum and rhythm.
Another thing about the pure MP204 WOTCO—I got hammered routinely by the frequency of PSO/PPSOs and couldn’t ever establish a strong winning record adhering to the strict MP204 system.
Sooo… I stopped WOTCO and only laid out my Place bets after the point had been established. Secondly, I changed the betting amounts to make it easier for the dealers to quickly grasp my system. I also liked an idea posed to me by a dealer- “Place any number with the minimum bet and parlay it 5x before you take a payoff. You risk the minimum for a big payday.” I incorporated that idea into my system.
After the recent Covid reports in the Casino Intel forum, I changed my betting amounts again during home wargaming.
I haven’t played regularly in at least 3-1/2 years, and not once in the last ~20 months. That is, I don’t think I've visited a casino 5x in a year since ~2015 to my recollection. A variety of reasons, but I’ve always wanted to return. I haven’t had the chance to practice tossing since we moved and I had to break the table down. Hopefully, I’ll be in shape enough to rebuild it soon. I might/should be able to visit a casino sometime after April 2021; our health (bone and joint) should improve with PT by then, and the vaccine should be out. There is one benefit to this virus—our hermitism has allowed us to save ~$12,000 in the last 14 months, so I’ve got a war chest worthy of Covid craps-table stakes if I have the guts to play it.
I had been playing with a $220 Across system--"220" was the number I chose because it allowed me to take a full “1/6” regression from $50 (/60) Place bets to a $10 bet-- regressing to $52/54 Across after two payoffs or two non-paying rolls after the point is set.
$25 4/10, $60 6/8, $50 5/9, with no Place bet on the point number. $10 PL & $50 Odds. (total risked is $290/300) After the first Place number is made, I take down that Place Bet and spread the payoff and the former place bet across the remaining Place bets. (For example, $210 Across after a ‘6’ is the CO roll. If a 9 is rolled, $70 is the payoff, and I take down the $50 Place-9 bet and tell the dealer to spread the $120 “four ways” (adding $30 to the existing Placed-4, -5, -8 and -10). My reason for taking down the Place Bet to spread it among the remaining Place numbers is I don't usually bullfrog.
With this established, I wait for the second payoff or two more rolls; if no Place/Point number is rolled—i.e., all "trash numbers" for the next two rolls, then I regress to $52/54 Across and reduce the PL Odds to 1x (i.e., $10PL w/$10 Odds).
If I can’t get a payoff in the first two or three rolls after the CO, I turn off everything and roll to the conclusion.
That system wargamed VERY well for me at home with WinCraps and also SimCraps. The best way I can describe the system’s minimum bets is, minimum PL wager plus 5x Odds; initial Place Bet is "Across", with each bet equal to at least 6x my PL wager. One payoff and take down that Place bet, add it to the payoff, and spread Across on the remaining numbers for two more rolls, then regress to minimum stakes.
I did even better tallying this betting regimen against my BT books than the WinCraps or SimCraps simulations. However, with the recent Casino Intel forum reports of increased table limits (to a minimum of $15), I tried to increase my own minimums to...
$15PL w/75 Odds, and a reverse-engineered $90 bet on each Place number—(for a total of $540 at risk) that allows for a 6x regression down to $78/81 Across ($15 -4, -5, -9, -10 and a $18 bet on the 6 and/or 8)….
However, with this increase, I found that $90 bets on the 4/10 was too much for the statistics I’m generating; also, the “15" multiples/payoffs are a pain in the can to remember. My 'solution' has been to increase my minimum to $25:
$25 PL with $150 4/10, $300 on the 5, 6, 8, 9. I’ve gamed it with a buy-in of $7500. That’s not as scary as it used to sound--the last few times I tried live play with the $220 Across version I had $3000 with me, so home-risk bravado says that with the enforced $12,000 saved, “$7500 is not so much". rolleyes.. Anyway, whatever the point is, the Odds are the same as the Place Bet-- $150 Odds on 4/10, or $300 Odds for any other number. On the first Inside payoff, take down the Place bet and spread the total across the remaining numbers (that is, if the $300 6/8 pays $360, I have $660 to spread 4 ways-- my "no bullfrog" philosophy adds $150 to each remaining Place bet preferring the Odds bet if it’s an inside number over adding to a 4/10 Place bet (as the fourth bet). I rack the extra $60. Then I usually ISR after another (second) payoff or if I now roll two consecutive non-paying numbers.
If the first payoff is a 4/10, then I take down the $150- 4/10 Place bet[s] (and $150 Odds if the point is a 4 or 10) and spread the payoff and Place bets ($270+150+150) Across the Inside numbers ($100 5/9, $150 6/8 and rack the remaining $70).
Sometimes on a hunch, if I don’t get paid a second time in two more rolls, I'll just turn off all the Place Bets and wait for an outcome with a minimum PL & 1x Odds. Better at a minimum to reap a single full payoff than lose part of it hoping I’ll “right the ship” and throw lots of paying numbers while risking at least ~30% ($108/111 including the PL wagers) after 4 rolls.
After a successful ISR from two payoffs to the minimum Across bet, I’d let the dice choose my “hero" number. It’s been so long I can't remember what that frequency-hit Place number is called (someone help me?). For instance, after I’ve ISR'd to the table minimums, if I rolled a ‘9’ as the first number after the regression, I would full-parlay the 9 twice, reducing back to the minimum bet for the 9 on its’ third hit. All other numbers I’d “up one unit" on every pay off. Once I took the third-hit-9 payoff and reduced it to the table minimum bet, I’d full-parlay the next highest bet til I got to 5x, OR trade the next highest bet with the 9’s minimum and see if I could get to 5x with the 9. (thus eyeing the dealer’s recommendation, “Place the minimum and let it ride”)
I’ve never gotten to 5x parlay and got paid. I think it’s died at least four times waiting for the 5th hit on my frequent number. (damn, what’s that called?)
But that’s my version of a Mad Professor-inspired regression system. There’s nothing "204 WOTCO" about it, but MP’s outline inspired my search for a “workable” ISR regression and my adjustments seemed to work well for me at lower levels ($220 Across?!??) when I had the nerve to play in the big munnie. I've been gaming this so long I'm used to it; here's hoping I have the nerve in 2021 to bet it live.
I didn't mean to take this off on a tangent; I meant it as "my thoughts" on the 5-0. I'm looking for a "quick kill" in 4 rolls... a system that is generally viable enough to recoup repeated PSO/PPSOs. My biggest tendency is that I don't bullfrog often and my 4/10s don't seem to be much more frequent than expected normal statistics. I've been geared for the $5-10 table, but with $15 as a minimum (and my current recollection geared to $30 and $50 bets, "15" ISR'd from $90 is too much of a new 'shift'), thus, my home gaming at the $25 level.
I was an MP204 WOTCO devotee for a while; it served me well for opening my eyes to a regression regimen, but the actual bet amounts killed my train of thought too often so I had to alter the amounts. I, too, had the same trouble with dealers at live tables explaining the 25,35,42 as “they all pay $49 Across" bets to dealers because it was such an odd set of bets; last-attempt-finger-pointing with a verbal “$25, $35, 42…” would always kill table momentum and rhythm.
Another thing about the pure MP204 WOTCO—I got hammered routinely by the frequency of PSO/PPSOs and couldn’t ever establish a strong winning record adhering to the strict MP204 system.
Sooo… I stopped WOTCO and only laid out my Place bets after the point had been established. Secondly, I changed the betting amounts to make it easier for the dealers to quickly grasp my system. I also liked an idea posed to me by a dealer- “Place any number with the minimum bet and parlay it 5x before you take a payoff. You risk the minimum for a big payday.” I incorporated that idea into my system.
After the recent Covid reports in the Casino Intel forum, I changed my betting amounts again during home wargaming.
I haven’t played regularly in at least 3-1/2 years, and not once in the last ~20 months. That is, I don’t think I've visited a casino 5x in a year since ~2015 to my recollection. A variety of reasons, but I’ve always wanted to return. I haven’t had the chance to practice tossing since we moved and I had to break the table down. Hopefully, I’ll be in shape enough to rebuild it soon. I might/should be able to visit a casino sometime after April 2021; our health (bone and joint) should improve with PT by then, and the vaccine should be out. There is one benefit to this virus—our hermitism has allowed us to save ~$12,000 in the last 14 months, so I’ve got a war chest worthy of Covid craps-table stakes if I have the guts to play it.
I had been playing with a $220 Across system--"220" was the number I chose because it allowed me to take a full “1/6” regression from $50 (/60) Place bets to a $10 bet-- regressing to $52/54 Across after two payoffs or two non-paying rolls after the point is set.
$25 4/10, $60 6/8, $50 5/9, with no Place bet on the point number. $10 PL & $50 Odds. (total risked is $290/300) After the first Place number is made, I take down that Place Bet and spread the payoff and the former place bet across the remaining Place bets. (For example, $210 Across after a ‘6’ is the CO roll. If a 9 is rolled, $70 is the payoff, and I take down the $50 Place-9 bet and tell the dealer to spread the $120 “four ways” (adding $30 to the existing Placed-4, -5, -8 and -10). My reason for taking down the Place Bet to spread it among the remaining Place numbers is I don't usually bullfrog.
With this established, I wait for the second payoff or two more rolls; if no Place/Point number is rolled—i.e., all "trash numbers" for the next two rolls, then I regress to $52/54 Across and reduce the PL Odds to 1x (i.e., $10PL w/$10 Odds).
If I can’t get a payoff in the first two or three rolls after the CO, I turn off everything and roll to the conclusion.
That system wargamed VERY well for me at home with WinCraps and also SimCraps. The best way I can describe the system’s minimum bets is, minimum PL wager plus 5x Odds; initial Place Bet is "Across", with each bet equal to at least 6x my PL wager. One payoff and take down that Place bet, add it to the payoff, and spread Across on the remaining numbers for two more rolls, then regress to minimum stakes.
I did even better tallying this betting regimen against my BT books than the WinCraps or SimCraps simulations. However, with the recent Casino Intel forum reports of increased table limits (to a minimum of $15), I tried to increase my own minimums to...
$15PL w/75 Odds, and a reverse-engineered $90 bet on each Place number—(for a total of $540 at risk) that allows for a 6x regression down to $78/81 Across ($15 -4, -5, -9, -10 and a $18 bet on the 6 and/or 8)….
However, with this increase, I found that $90 bets on the 4/10 was too much for the statistics I’m generating; also, the “15" multiples/payoffs are a pain in the can to remember. My 'solution' has been to increase my minimum to $25:
$25 PL with $150 4/10, $300 on the 5, 6, 8, 9. I’ve gamed it with a buy-in of $7500. That’s not as scary as it used to sound--the last few times I tried live play with the $220 Across version I had $3000 with me, so home-risk bravado says that with the enforced $12,000 saved, “$7500 is not so much". rolleyes.. Anyway, whatever the point is, the Odds are the same as the Place Bet-- $150 Odds on 4/10, or $300 Odds for any other number. On the first Inside payoff, take down the Place bet and spread the total across the remaining numbers (that is, if the $300 6/8 pays $360, I have $660 to spread 4 ways-- my "no bullfrog" philosophy adds $150 to each remaining Place bet preferring the Odds bet if it’s an inside number over adding to a 4/10 Place bet (as the fourth bet). I rack the extra $60. Then I usually ISR after another (second) payoff or if I now roll two consecutive non-paying numbers.
If the first payoff is a 4/10, then I take down the $150- 4/10 Place bet[s] (and $150 Odds if the point is a 4 or 10) and spread the payoff and Place bets ($270+150+150) Across the Inside numbers ($100 5/9, $150 6/8 and rack the remaining $70).
Sometimes on a hunch, if I don’t get paid a second time in two more rolls, I'll just turn off all the Place Bets and wait for an outcome with a minimum PL & 1x Odds. Better at a minimum to reap a single full payoff than lose part of it hoping I’ll “right the ship” and throw lots of paying numbers while risking at least ~30% ($108/111 including the PL wagers) after 4 rolls.
After a successful ISR from two payoffs to the minimum Across bet, I’d let the dice choose my “hero" number. It’s been so long I can't remember what that frequency-hit Place number is called (someone help me?). For instance, after I’ve ISR'd to the table minimums, if I rolled a ‘9’ as the first number after the regression, I would full-parlay the 9 twice, reducing back to the minimum bet for the 9 on its’ third hit. All other numbers I’d “up one unit" on every pay off. Once I took the third-hit-9 payoff and reduced it to the table minimum bet, I’d full-parlay the next highest bet til I got to 5x, OR trade the next highest bet with the 9’s minimum and see if I could get to 5x with the 9. (thus eyeing the dealer’s recommendation, “Place the minimum and let it ride”)
I’ve never gotten to 5x parlay and got paid. I think it’s died at least four times waiting for the 5th hit on my frequent number. (damn, what’s that called?)
But that’s my version of a Mad Professor-inspired regression system. There’s nothing "204 WOTCO" about it, but MP’s outline inspired my search for a “workable” ISR regression and my adjustments seemed to work well for me at lower levels ($220 Across?!??) when I had the nerve to play in the big munnie. I've been gaming this so long I'm used to it; here's hoping I have the nerve in 2021 to bet it live.
I didn't mean to take this off on a tangent; I meant it as "my thoughts" on the 5-0. I'm looking for a "quick kill" in 4 rolls... a system that is generally viable enough to recoup repeated PSO/PPSOs. My biggest tendency is that I don't bullfrog often and my 4/10s don't seem to be much more frequent than expected normal statistics. I've been geared for the $5-10 table, but with $15 as a minimum (and my current recollection geared to $30 and $50 bets, "15" ISR'd from $90 is too much of a new 'shift'), thus, my home gaming at the $25 level.
Re: 5-O
Funny. My biggest takeaways on Brian's videos on YouTube have been "When is he going to kill that damn rooster crowing in the background and make whatever Hawaiians have instead of chicken and dumplings?" "When is he going to tell viewers they can download Bonetracker free from axispowercraps.com instead of telling them to Google it?" And "When is he going to get a stick of green dice so he can track his rolls properly in BoneTracker and use it for more than tracking SRR?"
He's clearly a bright guy. He's figured out you need to shoot from the deck and eliminate the backswing. He's figured out a 30 degree or lower angle is the way to go on bouncy tables. He understands the importance of focus and nailing your landing spot repeatedly. Without trying to sound braggadocios, with a little BT training and a class or two Nate and I could take him from being a good shooter to being a great one. He's one of the few Youtubers I've watched that actually gets it.
He's clearly a bright guy. He's figured out you need to shoot from the deck and eliminate the backswing. He's figured out a 30 degree or lower angle is the way to go on bouncy tables. He understands the importance of focus and nailing your landing spot repeatedly. Without trying to sound braggadocios, with a little BT training and a class or two Nate and I could take him from being a good shooter to being a great one. He's one of the few Youtubers I've watched that actually gets it.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy
- Heavy
Re: 5-O
Dork,
I followed you pretty well with your strategy changes. You have always had well thought out posts...I am a little wary of the 7,500 buy in. I have enough short rolls to get a major 'hurt' doing so. Especially since they all seem to come in clumps. I have experienced 3 PSO's in a row with the 204, after which I had to re-instate my religion.
Heavy,
I so agree with you about 'Brian'..
However in Hawaiian neighborhoods, you would have to kill a heck of a lot of chickens to quiet them down.
Memo
I followed you pretty well with your strategy changes. You have always had well thought out posts...I am a little wary of the 7,500 buy in. I have enough short rolls to get a major 'hurt' doing so. Especially since they all seem to come in clumps. I have experienced 3 PSO's in a row with the 204, after which I had to re-instate my religion.
Heavy,
I so agree with you about 'Brian'..
However in Hawaiian neighborhoods, you would have to kill a heck of a lot of chickens to quiet them down.
Memo
Re: 5-O
Yes, this guy is one of the better ones out there. I almost wrote him off when one the first videos I saw of his touted the merits of the Iron Cross for beginners. Glad I gave him another chance.heavy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:11 pm Funny. My biggest takeaways on Brian's videos on YouTube have been "When is he going to kill that damn rooster crowing in the background and make whatever Hawaiians have instead of chicken and dumplings?" "When is he going to tell viewers they can download Bonetracker free from axispowercraps.com instead of telling them to Google it?" And "When is he going to get a stick of green dice so he can track his rolls properly in BoneTracker and use it for more than tracking SRR?"
He's clearly a bright guy. He's figured out you need to shoot from the deck and eliminate the backswing. He's figured out a 30 degree or lower angle is the way to go on bouncy tables. He understands the importance of focus and nailing your landing spot repeatedly. Without trying to sound braggadocios, with a little BT training and a class or two Nate and I could take him from being a good shooter to being a great one. He's one of the few Youtubers I've watched that actually gets it.
Re: 5-O
Hawaii is, perhaps, second only to the Philippines as a hotbed for illegal cockfighting. There are large gamecock farms all over Hawaii, raising the roosters for export, and apparently there is no shortage of local cockfighting. You get your gamble on where you can, I guess. It never really appealed to me, but there you go. There are people all over the Continental US who raise them for export as well.in Hawaiian neighborhoods, you would have to kill a heck of a lot of chickens to quiet them down.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy
- Heavy
Re: 5-O
Just a quick update on the 5-O strategy.
I have not had as much practice as usual for this past week. I’ve only gotten in a little over 500 shots. Takes me a bit longer when I use chips to keep up with + and – on every shot.
My normal way of playing the 5-O was to make a $10 PL bet to shoot. Then after setting a point place the $204 across. I would press the 4 and 10 with the payout from 1st hit instead of the 5 and 6. I adjusted my tossing set to take advantage of this. I changed it (within the same group) to a set that was best for across hits. Since I had two that were both 8.2% across I did a little more analysis and decide to use the one that was weighted more toward outside. I wanted to try to hit pressed up 4’s and 10’s. It was also handy on the occasions that I went for three rolls rather than two before regression. On those times I would press the 5 and 9 on the second hit and even a few times just pressed up the 4 and 10 again. It didn’t really matter since regression was the next box tossed anyway and it was either going to be hit and down or lost. I used the same set for both CO and after. It was a really good set for both for me since all horn numbers were below random. I know someone is going to ask…what set? For me the set from my favorite group that fit the bill is the 3,3 top and 1,2 facing. Keep in mind we are all a little different just because it works for me doesn’t mean it will for everyone or maybe not even anyone else. You have to find your group then find a set that fits the bill for what you want to accomplish.
Now the totals.. I had a total buy in of $2200 and cash out of $6488. This should have proven to me that it does work but I’m still a bit skeptical. I managed to toss very few hands of 4 or lower. They were the ones that hurt. Although I did manage one hand of 4 tosses that made money by hitting the pressed up 10 on roll 3 regressing and tossing a seven next. Also I had a good amount of hands between 10 and 20 + rolls. I’m gonna keep working it. I need to convince myself that it’s for me. Then have the stones to do it for real.
Coaster
I have not had as much practice as usual for this past week. I’ve only gotten in a little over 500 shots. Takes me a bit longer when I use chips to keep up with + and – on every shot.
My normal way of playing the 5-O was to make a $10 PL bet to shoot. Then after setting a point place the $204 across. I would press the 4 and 10 with the payout from 1st hit instead of the 5 and 6. I adjusted my tossing set to take advantage of this. I changed it (within the same group) to a set that was best for across hits. Since I had two that were both 8.2% across I did a little more analysis and decide to use the one that was weighted more toward outside. I wanted to try to hit pressed up 4’s and 10’s. It was also handy on the occasions that I went for three rolls rather than two before regression. On those times I would press the 5 and 9 on the second hit and even a few times just pressed up the 4 and 10 again. It didn’t really matter since regression was the next box tossed anyway and it was either going to be hit and down or lost. I used the same set for both CO and after. It was a really good set for both for me since all horn numbers were below random. I know someone is going to ask…what set? For me the set from my favorite group that fit the bill is the 3,3 top and 1,2 facing. Keep in mind we are all a little different just because it works for me doesn’t mean it will for everyone or maybe not even anyone else. You have to find your group then find a set that fits the bill for what you want to accomplish.
Now the totals.. I had a total buy in of $2200 and cash out of $6488. This should have proven to me that it does work but I’m still a bit skeptical. I managed to toss very few hands of 4 or lower. They were the ones that hurt. Although I did manage one hand of 4 tosses that made money by hitting the pressed up 10 on roll 3 regressing and tossing a seven next. Also I had a good amount of hands between 10 and 20 + rolls. I’m gonna keep working it. I need to convince myself that it’s for me. Then have the stones to do it for real.
Coaster
Re: 5-O
Cool remarks..coaster wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:57 am My normal way of playing the 5-O was to make a $10 PL bet to shoot. Then after setting a point place the $204 across. I would press the 4 and 10 with the payout from 1st hit instead of the 5 and 6. I adjusted my tossing set to take advantage of this. I changed it (within the same group) to a set that was best for across hits. Since I had two that were both 8.2% across I did a little more analysis and decide to use the one that was weighted more toward outside. I wanted to try to hit pressed up 4’s and 10’s. It was also handy on the occasions that I went for three rolls rather than two before regression. On those times I would press the 5 and 9 on the second hit and even a few times just pressed up the 4 and 10 again. It didn’t really matter since regression was the next box tossed anyway and it was either going to be hit and down or lost. I used the same set for both CO and after. It was a really good set for both for me since all horn numbers were below random. I know someone is going to ask…what set? For me the set from my favorite group that fit the bill is the 3,3 top and 1,2 facing. Keep in mind we are all a little different just because it works for me doesn’t mean it will for everyone or maybe not even anyone else. You have to find your group then find a set that fits the bill for what you want to accomplish.
Our friends from Hawaii were pressing 6,8 first then 5,9 because they are the most 'expected' to hit...and doing well with it.
Now with your analysis you can refine your set and bets to produce the maximum potential payout under the same circumstances..
Ironic. This whole idea was 'poo hooed' by the same person that asked that someone stand on his shoulders and move us to the next level..
Sad that no one on the board was 'smart' enough to do that...At least in his opinion
Memo