Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

In Biloxi, I was betting the 2's and 12's early and often (either extreme pays 6 to 1), then realized with it being a Crapless table, that a PL bet covers one and you're naked on the other when coming out; so I think the play is to work both those bets when you shoot. This was after Parson and I had the same conclusion of skipping the PL on the Crapless, unless you're shooting. I got this bolt after BankerDude and BankerBro each tossed come-out aces to start their hands. Both would have been good hits (had they been working) and a fine start to the progression that 22Inside pointed out in the Biloxi TR thread. So when they hit, I go up on the 11 & 3, which pay 3 to 1. Later, I added a Field bet on the come out to boot as we have a couple of guys using field rich sets..... its a beautiful DI thing. I know I have several Horn-rich sets and a couple of those are also heavy on the ace-deuce, so it's back to the Bonetracker for Sniper Analytics.

These types of plays got me thinking that we need a Crapless Corner thread here in the Forum, so THIS IT IS !

Let's see all your crapless strategies here, share them here, so we have one stop shopping for future Crapless travelers, DN8R

Good idea Nate. This is as good a place as any to collect thoughts on these. Should be interesting.

Not a Crapless strategy but a Crapless question DN or anyone. When you play the field on the crapless comeout do you then use the win on the field to increase the number that hit or place it if not yet placed or do you just rack the proceeds from the field win? What's your go to strategy? Thanks!

These types of plays got me thinking that we need a Crapless Corner thread here in the Forum, so THIS IT IS !

Perfect. I was thinking the same thing at work today and was planning on asking some ?s tonight. You beat me to it. Several times recently i have seen comments about payouts on the extreme numbers on FB that didnt seem right and thought i wish i had a place to see what exactly they are. What i always used i learned on Wizards which showed pass line odds pays as 6-1 and 3-1( 2&12 and 3&11 respectively) and place bets at 11-2 and 11-4 and 119-20 and 59-20 when bought, but some of the things i saw posted didnt seem to match up with this.

I toss X6s so i have always been intrigued by the extremes. When i first played crapless 5 years ago I would take a chance depending how it was going working on the extremes on the comeout. It just seemed natural because i usually bet a horn anyway and at least this wasnt a one roll bet even though it did require more layout for less payout it seemed like a good trade off. Then a couple of years ago in Biloxi someone suggested adding a big red and a pass line to cover the working extremes. It was at one of Heavys Biloxi bashes. One of the locals sweet talked Harrahs into opening the crapless early and we took the table over as a group. No covid so probably 14 of us all betting the extremes working with a big red. At first the dealers were confused or reluctant but they adjusted and got with the program.

My only issue has been my practice rig is set up for SL1 on a 12 ft and all the crapless are 14. I have had some good crapless rolls but have not been able to toss as many extremes as i can on a 12 form SL1. I hope to have a full 12 soon and can simulate practice for SL1 on a 14 ft table. I heard the stratosphere in Vegas has a 12 crapless but i have never been.

Thanks for kicking this topic off Nate. Looking forward to the comments

Big O, i see plenty of crapless that 12 ft ... tunica and biloxi. Dont know where wizard got those payouts, i have never seen that live. I prefer tunica crapless over biloxi, tunica is vig on the win, biloxi costs ya upfront for a hard number to hit.

RR, when i use the field, i use the win for extremes. Somewhat of a free bet.
I see a lot of guys in Tunica, push their wins from 6&8 to the extremes as well.

Some of my best runs started with 6&8 and field bet ... a 3X 12 and i will cover them all costing the field bet.

Bankroll management is key .... as well as hitting those darn extremes. I will press the 3 and 11 first generaly if they hit.

Pappy Van Winkle taught me to play the crapless as you would regular craps, use the field if field numbers are trending to fund the extremes and other place bets, or fund them from existing place bets. I've observed Parson playing in a similar manner, although he'll also risk $36 on the two or twelve hoping for a hit. The average hand in craps is 8-10 rolls, and that's a lot of place action to have out there if betting across.

The Crapless Table ( aka: Never Ever Craps)
treats ALL TEN NUMBERS AS BOX NUMBERS

This allows the normally "one roll gambles" to treatment as REGULAR NUMBER.....
...The trade-off is
REMOVAL of
THE DARK Side ( Do Not Pass & Do Not Come)
Thus taking away a STRONG PLayer option.

<==> The PLAYER may however Turn Wagers OFF
or
Fully takedown PLACE BETS with the option of Placing those WAGERS later.


Have observed players over several decades
that seemingly play the NEVER EVER CRAPS TABLES

(with an "ice in their veins" type game plan)

Essentially they treat it similar
to the much-maligned IRON CROSS game plan
for a few rolls of the dice.
They intermittently "Light Up their DOLLARS AT Risk"
REMOVE or TURN OFF those Box Number Bets
electing to RE-ENTER the game at will several times...

All TEN(10) Box Numbers are covered.
After the Come Out toss.......
They activate the wager(s) for perhaps TWO(2) or THREE(3) rolls of the dice.

restated as
Then the TURN OFF ALL TEN(10) BOX NUMBER WAGERS.
The gambit is reactivated for each NEW SHOOTER for TWO (2) or Three(3) tosses.

After some number of shooters
( often 5 shooters or TEN Hits),
then after ten(10) hits the $USD at risk is by some of them increased.
===
This game plan may or may not fit every Wager Placers...
.....Risk Tolerance [ or funding].

Should there exist a $15 Minimum Craples Table
a fellow may choose to place at risk $156
others with the BANKROLL to weather some DOWNTURN
could elect to start off with $300 across....or even larger $ USD Value


or the WAGER MAKER may select to Place BET only select Box Numbers
.

Were a gambler to have "WET DREAMS" over the prospect
Beau Rivage has a Maximum Wager on the Never Ever Craps Table of $10,000

and
should have the BANK a GAMBLER
could make
COME BETS for $10,000 and $10,000 ODDS

How about tossing Box# 2 AND Box Number 12 back to back several times
while you have them actively covered to the Table Max?

Just me saying
w c

rhythm roller wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:28 pm Not a Crapless strategy but a Crapless question DN or anyone. When you play the field on the crapless comeout do you then use the win on the field to increase the number that hit or place it if not yet placed or do you just rack the proceeds from the field win? What's your go to strategy? Thanks!

Glad to see some interest in this thread.

WRT your question, when I bet the field it is primarily to fund numbers to be placed; and generally only on shooters with a strong field history. I also have been studying chains (consecutive) of field numbers and field gaps (non-consecutive) and have been known to play a mini CT-SL on a few DIs that are field harvesters. When your progression goes $15, $35, and then they hit a triple paying 12 at $75, that funds the remaining extremes quickly and in conjunction with the 12 having been placed from the get go; will get you up early. Again, that’s only on guys using field rich or horn rich sets.

DN8R

Bankerdude80 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:19 pm Pappy Van Winkle taught me to play the crapless as you would regular craps, use the field if field numbers are trending to fund the extremes and other place bets, or fund them from existing place bets. I've observed Parson playing in a similar manner, although he'll also risk $36 on the two or twelve hoping for a hit. The average hand in craps is 8-10 rolls, and that's a lot of place action to have out there if betting across.

I have the same strategy Banker. Fund the inside bets with the 6&8 and the extremes with field hits. I use that on other players at the table. My strategy at the Crapless table is regular table across bet (130-135) depending on the point and fund the extremes with hits. No field bets. The reason I don't go All across is because that's an extra $100.00 for four number that I would rather the casino / my roll fund than my buy in.

G

DarthNater wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:33 am
Glad to see some interest in this thread.

WRT your question, when I bet the field it is primarily to fund numbers to be placed; and generally only on shooters with a strong field history.

DN8R

Nate, I assume you are talking about known shooters / comrades at the table when you made that comment? Do you watch other players (not known to you) for a few rounds and see if you can pick up a trend on them?

Thanks
G

gargoil wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:06 am

DarthNater wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:33 am
Glad to see some interest in this thread.

WRT your question, when I bet the field it is primarily to fund numbers to be placed; and generally only on shooters with a strong field history.

DN8R

Nate, I assume you are talking about known shooters / comrades at the table when you made that comment? Do you watch other players (not known to you) for a few rounds and see if you can pick up a trend on them?

Thanks
G

Yes 95% of the time, it’s DIs I know. Many are hardcore Bonetrackers and use specific flight plans as we will have discussed either in advance or between hands. For instance, I’ll say “going with my field rich set “ or horn set.

For the other 5%, I might observe and see if I want to make a move

DN8R

Bankerdude80 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:19 pm Pappy Van Winkle taught me to play the crapless as you would regular craps, use the field if field numbers are trending to fund the extremes and other place bets, or fund them from existing place bets. I've observed Parson playing in a similar manner, although he'll also risk $36 on the two or twelve hoping for a hit. The average hand in craps is 8-10 rolls, and that's a lot of place action to have out there if betting across.

Guilty.... never saw a two I didn't like .... When on that mammoth of a crapless table at Hard Rock, when Old Cleaner made the point a two, I immediately placed it. Then next toss, and ace showing with one off the table, you told Cleaner that the dice off was going to be an Ace, you saw it! LOL He never put odds on his pass - after telling him he really needed to, so he tossed $10 on ACES, I went $10 Horn High Aces .... boom he hits Aces, He gets a nice payday, I get a very nice 6x$25 on the two + horn high aces ... point is down and he tosses another ACES after we both pressed the Horn Bet ... was a lovely thing - fun as heck.

The thing I hate about Crapless with my strategy - which is not all that efficient - is that it takes too long to get the numbers up... you really have to catch that nice longer than average hand.

I just go in on a crapless table as I did in Biloxi figuring most will be shooting for the extremes so I'm on there for $80..$20 each. Never a line bet unless I'm shooting. Field bet isn't a bad idea, but since the money you win on the field goes up on extremes there's a chance of even losing that field money. Seems like an intermediary bet and is a loss if the shooter rolls no field number. One roll bets don't make my day.

DarthNater wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:31 am

gargoil wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:06 am

DarthNater wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:33 am
Glad to see some interest in this thread.

WRT your question, when I bet the field it is primarily to fund numbers to be placed; and generally only on shooters with a strong field history.

DN8R

Nate, I assume you are talking about known shooters / comrades at the table when you made that comment? Do you watch other players (not known to you) for a few rounds and see if you can pick up a trend on them?

Thanks
G

Yes 95% of the time, it’s DIs I know. Many are hardcore Bonetrackers and use specific flight plans as we will have discussed either in advance or between hands. For instance, I’ll say “going with my field rich set “ or horn set.

For the other 5%, I might observe and see if I want to make a move

DN8R

Thanks Nate so then you already have a betting strategy based on the particular DI and his / her ability to hit certain numbers. That's actually the best form of success coming to the tables and really everyone here can learn that fact. Myself getting on tables with Non DI I stick to 6/8 betting and grow the line.

Thank you for your input Nate.
G

gargoil wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:59 pm Thanks Nate so then you already have a betting strategy based on the particular DI and his / her ability to hit certain numbers. That's actually the best form of success coming to the tables and really everyone here can learn that fact. Myself getting on tables with Non DI I stick to 6/8 betting and grow the line.

Thank you for your input Nate.
G

Gargoil,
Yep, it really comes down to knowing tendencies of the player and what they are trying to accomplish in that session. Plus, if its your first time on a table, let people know that. Likewise, in the Saturday session at Biloxi, I shared my preference for a table and was willing to wait until I got it. Then went for it on Sunday too, with a more aggressive attack.

Also, lately for non DI, I lean toward a DC and then either lay odds or play an OHCM variant, DN8R

I'm starting to have fun with Crapless trables and employing my most recent strategy using the Shocka Set - its a 2,3,11 rich set [thanks Coaster Chart].

In practice it is 4 rich, however in a certain casino it appears to be 10 rich and 4 & 5 light. So I have been putting $100 lays on the 4 and $15 Buys on the 2 & 12, working. The automatic Buy here is $10, Parson. It's my version of the OHCM for 2 & 12 Extremes, as when I get a hit on the 2 or 12, I press the hit number to $25, reduce the lay to $50. So far, I've declined the $10 Hard 4 Hedge. I'm doing it for my rolls as well as randies. On my come-out roll I go $120 lay and $15 each on the Horns working. First hit, I reduce the lay to $60.

I have yet to toss a four on this table; whereas today a randy tossed 4 sevens in a row, paying $20 for $2 each. The Shocka Set is also 8 rich, unfortunately as it's 4 & 5 light, my ATS is only $2/2/2, but every time I see a horn, I've actually grown numb to the ATS.

I'm going to have to branch out and find more Crapless tables that accept lay bets, lol, DN8R

I will be playing tunica this weekend, and will look at the layouts, but i dont think they offer lays .... but will report back.

Im sure tho, that while waiting on the dice, if minimum is 25, i will just place a 35 on the 12 and wait and collect when it hits.

Crapless Craps Corner

Excellent idea for a thread topic.

Find your dominate side, using 6/1 as your axis. Chop the table in two, bet uptown or downtown. Good start, uptown, would be $75 ten, $50 eleven and $25 twelve. $150 payout each, less vig. As cheap as it gets for a $25 table. Bring money.

HOO
"... bet uptown or downtown. Good start, uptown, would be $75 ten, $50 eleven and $25 twelve. $150 payout each, less vig. .."

I like to utilize these three wagers/ usually do equi-amounts. However , I like ur suggestion to stagger the wagers for equal payouts.