Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

If you are at a $5 table with 3,4,5 odds and a $5 don't bet, then this is the max you could bet on the don't come odds.
point is 4 or 10 you could bet $30 to win $15 ( odds are 1 to 2)
point is 5 or 9 bet $30 to win $20 (odds are 2 to 3)
point is 6 or 8 bet $30 to win $25 (odds are 5 to 6)

With 3-4-5 odds, the max bet is the same for all numbers, but the pay outs are different as you see. If you only want to do single odds, then it would be:

point is 4 or 10 you could bet $10 to win $5
point is 5 or 9 bet $9 to win $6
point is 6 or 8 bet $6 to win $5

The actual chips don't HAVE to be bridged, but they can be to signify that there is a don't pass odds bet, instead of a second don't pass bet. There really isn't a place on the table for the don't odds bet like there is for the pass odds. So at least one chip has to be at the bottom and the rest stacked offset of the first one, or bridged together. Make sense?

Different dealers do it differently with the chips, but it should pay the same no matter what how they are stacked!!

EdgeCrusher wrote:I am lead to believe that the payout is different if the odds are stacked vs bridged. Whenever I place my single odds, the dealer invariably changes the way I place my odds from stacked to bridged or the other way. So I was wondering if there was an easy way to remember what to do, like "Keep your odds even" when the point is 5 or 9 or "Bridge the don't 5 and 9, all others are stacked".

Thank you for the odds explanation, I can place $10, $9, or $6 to protect a $5 don't come

IIRC the term the dealers use is "heeled" even though the odds are "stacked."

If the payoff for a Don't Pass Odds bet equals the amount of the Flat bet, then the Odds bet is bridged.
e.g. you are laying $6 odds (point being 6 or 8), on a win you get $5. Your Flat bet and Odds bet win the same
amount (i.e., $5 each), you bridge your $6 Odds bet by placing a $5 chip directly next to your $5 Flat bet, and then placing
the $1 chip so it bridges the two $5 chips.

If the payoff for a Don't Pass Odds bet doesn't equal the amount of the Flat bet, then the Odds bet is heeled.
i.e. place the bottom chip of your Odds bet chip stack directly next to your Flat bet, then, place all remaining Odds bet
chips on top of that single chip but offset and leaning on that bottom chip.

YMMV, depending on the dealer...

It bothers me if the dealers just go and bridge my stuff. I politely let them know, no-touchy.

Glad to see you are looking at the darkside. It will make you a more complete player.


Golfer

Just remember, EdgeCrusher, you cannot win over and over just playing the don'ts. You have to mix it up and play the "right" side also.

isgood

Well, I guess I'll weigh in here on a couple of points. Bankroll and volatility. There was a time when I preached against laying odds on the Don't. My strategy was fairly simple. First bet $15 DP. Second bet $10 DC. The second bet is hedged by the first bet. Once established you have $25 Don't action and you were booking the house for a win - you had the advantage. If I wanted a third Don't bet established at that point I might add a $20 DP - hedged against the seven by the $25 action already established. I virtually never set more than three Don't bets at once playing this way. It was a grind. Overall, it worked fairly well. Not a lot of bankroll issues because there wasn't a lot of volatility.

Now fast forward to the days of "Dave's System." Dave is a Chicago player who has a significant bankroll and plays very big on the Don'ts. I think I'll knock some zeros off his typical bets to make it the strategy seem more real world to the bulk of our members. Let's go with a $10 10X odds game. First bet is $10 DP. Once established lay $60 odds and play a $10 DC. Again, take $60 odds and play another $10 DC. Starting to see where we're going? You continue making DC and odds bets until you get knocked off one of your established bets. Once that happens betting stops until the seven shows. If you get knocked off another established bet you take down your odds bets but leave the flat bets up. I think I pretty much got the strategy down. Now, this strategy can put a lot of chips in the rack quickly. But it can also deplete your rack quickly. Let's say you're happily making those $10 DC with $60 odds until you get five bets (including the DP) established. Well, it looks to me like you have $350 on the table. If you typical session buy-in is $500 this is not a strategy for you.

So how can you adjust to that? Well, you can start by making those odds bets look like $30 instead of $60. Yeah, you'll win less when you're winning but you'll lose less when you're losing. Next, you can stop that continuous bet thing and go with the old Don't version of the three point molly - get a total of three bets established then wait for a decision.

There are certainly more ways to adjust - all of which are a part of finding the strategy that's right for you. What I find is that the more I play the more I regress to the old tried and true strategies I played way back when I first started figuring this thing out.

Two more strings to your DARK SIDE BOW

A) After D/P with Lay , Then make three D/C bets with no ODDS ( D/P + 3 D/C bets = four ( 4 )bets

B) The above takes you to the fifth toss. At that time Transition ( switch) to serial COME BETS.
--- ODDS are optional. Continue making COME BETS ( with or sans ODDS ) until the SEVEN shows.
Most times you will not win much on the Do Side in this one. On some rare occasions you will be on-board when the shooter turns the snake around for the ever so elusive long roll. Still a gamble.

ANOTHER PLOY , PLAYING THE ODDS :

The longer the shooter tosses the dice,the closer he is to pitching the SEVEN .
The ODDS go against the shooter making his next Pass Line with each Pass Line established.

After the second P/L win the ODDS strongly favor not repeating the third P/L number.
The ODDS are even more stacked against the shooter on each subsequent P/L win.

There are several ways to exploit a hand that has grown long in the tooth.

Doing so may not make you popular with all those total perfect strangers at the craps table.
You may go home with more folding FIAT $ MONEY than you brought to the game.



W C

.
On the subject of LAYING ODDS AGAINST D/C # : Place THE LAY on the side of the chip(s)
furthest from the STICK MAN

The Dealer may fidget,count or re-arrange depending on how much a neatnick he/she is.

Oh, the damn dealers can't keep their hands OFF those Don't bets. I honestly think what most of them are doing when they handle the chips like that is to determine how much they're going to pay when the bet wins.

.
Me thinks there is only MANDATORY DEALER SCHOOL in some jurisdictions .
May be O J T on the cheap.
At that , me thinks there is a bunch of SOCIAL PROMOTING......

Just me saying,by observation

W C

Heavy;
Has anybody seen "Dave's System" Dave in Chicago lately? Wondering if he has survived and still doing well. I purely enjoyed that thread on the old pro board site. I can't remember the name of the di that started it several years earlier but at the time there were many "Dave" sitings and even a rumor that he had been banned from one of the casinos.
Also, How about the "Cow Tippin" DI was it Dylan Freak? Feel like some memory loss here.
B Bones

I saw Dave about 2 months ago. He seemed to be doing well that day. I am not playing as much and have not seen him as much. The DI who 1st wrote about Dave was 2Fist. He plays craps but the last time I saw him he was being called to the card game, he likes poker now more than dice.

My old buddy Dylanfreak is a live and well from what I know. He posts on a Tunica message board. I do not think he plays as much either.

He was a fun guy to play with and his wife Gail was a hoot. Saw her give him the finger one night when he yelled cowtippin at the table. Funy stuff.

Ah the old days. A couple of others missing are Shooter 57 and Professor H.

Those were the days.


Golfer

Thanx for that update Golfer, Yes it was 2fist. He wasn't even around anymore when I started reading the Dave System. Did u notice how many units Dave was playing? Was he adhering to the tried and true format?
Thanx Again
Bobby

Dave seemed to settle in at about $150-$300 odds on a $5 flat. That will be by the wayside now. HET is down to 10x odds and hollywood is 20x. Maybe it was because of Dave. Who knows. Seems like 100x is extinct in Joliet...for now.

Golfer

Hey guys, I saved the whole Dave's System thread by 2fist from the old board. But when I went to post it in, I got this message, " " Your message contains 221581 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60000." So I sent a PM to Heavy to see how I can go about posting Dave's System Thread. We'll get it posted some how.

$5Bill

I think $5 Bill has figured this out already. The thread will have to be broken down into 4 separate posts. Cut paste post. Cut paste post. Cut paste post. Cut paste post. Ta-Da! Hope to see that post up soon, Bill.

Hey Golfer

How come Joliet doesn't have 100 x Odds anymore? I was just at Hollywood in Aurora, Grand Victoria in Elgin and Rivers Casino in Des Plaines and all 3 of them still have 100x odds.

$5Bill

I would like to see the Dave Method, as I have read references to it for a while.

Americraps.... if you would like to see the Dave Method... viewforum.php?f=4

Scan the list, Last check, the Dave Method is 3rd in the list

Thanks MD